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Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by ping-ping-clicka, Sep 14, 2021.
He also wrote No Laughing Matter. It deals with his ordeal with Guillain-Barre. Informative.
There's an excellent adaptation on Netflix (in Australia) (Might be on another channel overseas) Produced by George Clooney. Fully fully recommended..
My two cents? It's about the horror of war, yada yada. But it's also about the Kafka-esque idea of the institution is there to protect itself. It doesn't care that Yossarian is insane, or sane, or sick, or well. Just that he has to keep flying, because someone higher up the chain said so. Even for the personal reasons given in the plot, it's the institution that allows it. The black market guy who does deals with the Germans too - it's the institution allowing one man to enrich himself, just because it protects it.
Great book. Thanks for bringing it up, @LarryF
I saw the original years ago. Don’t remember it being particularly funny even though Peter Sellers was in it.
The book IS funny, though. Give it a read. If you disagree I’ll owe you one.
lets see no apologue necessary. what are we talking about?
I'm talking about the 1997 film with Jeremy Irons. It seems that Mr. Irons brought a tortured quality to his part?
Lolita is not a romance film. It is a horror film Lolita is by far one of my favorite books and films I have ever come across. And I think it's very important for anyone reading\watching Lolita to understand it is not a love story. It is a story of abuse, a twisted stepfather and his stepdaughter ( the victim ). Lo's sweetness, annoyance, and childness is displayed all throughout the movie for a reason. It reminds the reader that she is a child. The scenes of her dancing around to the radio, smacking her gum in Humbert's face etc. emphasizes her youth and vulnerability. Because with the obvious age gap aside, these simple scenes and details Vladimir included in his book, and that Lyne included in the movie, stress that there's a much more concerning gap with maturity. He has certain traits of a father, he has that authority as well. And that's what's scary. This is not a love story. This is an abuse story, a horror movie. He provides for her and for the most part is her only friend. People can mistake that for love. But she is a child. She is not physically or emotionally ready for what he had been putting her through. This story is SUPPOSED to disgust you, because that's what it is; disgusting. Anyone who truly understands this film\book knows that Lo is manipulated into thinking this is love. Humbert is a very smart man, and he uses that. Lo was not in love. Humbert was not in love. He was abusing her, raping her, and depriving her of her childhood. Lo is a victim.
Neither have been lost! At least in my house. Evidence of the Peter Principle abounds, everywhere you look.
I read a lot and this is one of only 3 books that I've never finished. I was hugely disappointed in it as I was sure it was a book I'd love.
That's my recollection also. The book is dark but funny. I remember seeing the film later, but don't remember much about it. I would guess that by the time the film was made, the book was too notorious to be treated as a comedy.
Your 17 year old self earned his A!
Catch 22? For me, I think it might be the greatest novel of the modern era. No doubt there are other books that are more subtle, or that deal in more truly universal themes and experiences, but Catch 22 is, for me, THE book that opens up the absurdity of modern bureaucracy and all the behaviours and characters you encounter there.
Is it an allegory? I think that's fair. I don't read it as a historical novel, or an anti-war statement, or even as a comedy (although it's funny as hell). I am constantly reminded that I live in a world of tighter bombing patterns, and marching pennants, black eyes, feathers in caps, and failure medals, and that everybody has a share.
I feel bad that I don't like it... if feels like I should.
But the dialogue just gets on my nerves, the (I don't even know what it's called?) contrarian style of the language. Becomes irritating and I always put the book back down.
Maybe I'll try again...
You shouldn't feel that you ought to like it.
I have a great friend who is, by some distance, the most literate and literary person I know. He is profoundly and emotionally affected by great literature - but Catch 22 just doesn't float his boat.
I would say, with no hint of criticism intended, that he is not especially interested in novels of ideas, or irony, or paradox. There are other things in art to admire, and he does. He is probably a wee bit baffled by my regard for Catch 22.
No one should feel shame for not liking things that others do like. Nothing is perfect so finding it dull difficult or demented is fine by me. I love the book. But that others don’t is fine.
Have they uploaded the second season yet ?
Not that I've seen.
It will be kinda a waste if they don't complete the shooting of this.
Love that book. I read my copy until it fell apart, and I will read it again at some point. Nelson Algren was at a high point when it came out, and his review in The Nation went a long way to getting Catch 22 into people’s hands and minds. (The Man With the Golden Arm by Algren is another I have re-read relentlessly.)
Hey, I had that haircut back in the ‘70s…
That’s a great way to describe it. I actually really really like the movie, but in no way is it a great movie, or a great adaptation of the book. It is, however, the best (I think) that could be done. I don’t have any interest in seeing a miniseries of it.
The first time I read it was around the mid 60's or so after it was released in the UK. I have read it three or four times more over the years as well as the film (very poor) and the tv series a couple of years back. All repeats were enjoyable but never reached the belly aching laughter raised in me on that first read all those years ago. To this day the only book I ever had to put down because my stomach was aching with laughter cramps. In my top five great reads of all time for me and one of if not the greatest anti war novels ever written. Every parent who has a child who entertains a military career should say please read this first.
The absurdity of war never changes. My memory.
Anybody have a Seagrams VO ribbon?
Now you can feel good and go home.
Excellent book. Best of its genre.
I read most of the posts in this thread, that ought to count for something. Like the old man that Getbent posted about who was a multifaceted patriot, and lived a long time, I tend to shy away from reading books that make me think. A man gets to thinking too much, he might suffer a stroke, or think up something to do that he shouldn't. No, I just try to think of the lion cubs, that's enough for me.
You should try Sirens of Titan.
The book is fantastic. I've read it several times.
The movie did a pretty good job of re-creating the book on film. During filming in Mexico, Director Mike Nichols was the proud owner of the 5th-largest bomber force in the world (IIRC...the number of flying B25s they had on the set).
The film contains perhaps the funniest scene committed to celluloid:
I saw Artie's farewell tour a few years ago.
He recounted that originally they both had parts in the Catch 22 film, but Simon's part was taken out before filming. The song Only Living Boy in New York was written by Simon when Art was away filming and reflects his feelings of being p*ssed off about it. Well that was Art's public take on it.
Film was a turkey anyway - it would take one hell of a director/writer to capture the spirit of this complex masterpiece of a book.