Carvin Powered PA questions...

[supersam]

First off, sorry for the novel. I'd rather give you too much info than not enough.

I have a Carvin PA1200 powered mixer that I bought new maybe 12 or so years ago. It's the 12 channel 1000 watt mixer with 3 amps splitting the wattage. 333watts for L mains, 333watts for R mains, and 333watts for monitors.

I mostly use it for solo and duo gigging, and I'll use it 2 or 3 times a month with the full band.

The monitor amp crapped out on me 5 years ago or so. (It'll work sometimes, but then die in middle of a set).

L and R mains work 95% of the time, but occasionally one side will completely lose power. I've learned that if it does lose power (usually right away during soundcheck) I can yell in the mic real hard and hit it with a strong signal and it jolts it back to working again. Once it's working, it always stays working for the rest of the show. I can do this with the monitors too, but they will continue to go out on me so I've given up on using them. I'm hoping to get a new mixer in the near future, but this is what I have to work with at the moment.

For gigging, I've been either just using the mains and no monitors (with the mains slightly behind us so we can hear them), or I'll run it with one main on a stand, and the other main on the floor as a monitor, I run it in stereo and pan all the instruments 3/4 of the way to one side so that most of the volume is coming out of the main, and the same mix but less volume is coming out of the monitor (other main). I know this isn't ideal but it works for now, for the smaller gigs.

Until I replace this mixer, my main question is can I run 2 mains off of one amp (main L), and two monitors off of the other (main R), and do the same pain in the butt panning thing as I described above? Well, I know I can do it, but will it be bad for the power amps to daisy chain, and if not will each amp have enough juice to power two speakers? For the mains I'm using 2 passive Peavy TLS5 speakers (15" w/ horn, 8ohms I think, and 300watts handling power I believe). My monitors are CGM 12" passive, 200 watt, and 8ohms.

My amp says each of the three amps runs 333 watts @ 4ohms, or 200 watts @ 8 ohms.

If I daisy chain two 8ohm cabs together off of one amp, the two 8ohm cabs are now 4ohms right? If so then I would be feeding 333 watts to both speakers vs 200watts to one? Would that put too much strain on the power amp because it would be only feeding 333watts to two speakers rated at 300 watts each?

Also, it looks like I could plug two speakers directly to each amp. Would it be better to do it that way vs daisy chaining?

Here's a photo of the back of the mixer.

 

[SamClemons]

It should run fine with 2 speakers on any channel anyway you hook it up. Some kind of overheat/Clipping circuit is probably what is cutting the amps out. Hooking up 2 speakers might make that worse, but I would give it a try. If it is an overheating issue. Cleaning it out good with canned air, or putting some kind of fan in the head might help.

 

[supersam]

Thanks for the reply. The mixer actually has a nice built in fan which is always on. The mixer also has a "protect" light on the front, so I assume that that would go on if anything was overheating but who knows. It's weird to me that the sound would come back with a plosive or jolt to the mic, but who knows, haha.

Anyway, I'll give it a try and see how it goes.

 

[sequencepro]

[QUOTE="It's weird to me that the sound would come back with a plosive or jolt to the mic, )[/QUOTE]

I've seen this several times, sometimes with some large expensive mixers, and the culprit is often cigarette smoke. A good cleaning/lubing of the jacks and pots will sometimes work miracles.

 

[SamClemons]

Almost sounds like it has a noise gate that has to be kicked in (or off).

 

[supersam]

Yeah, it is almost like a gate, but once it's open, it stays open for a while. It's strange. I'll open it up and give it a good cleaning. I haven't opened it up since I bought it 12 years ago, and I've played roughly 150 gigs a year with this thing.

I'm considering doing a trade in with Carvin to get a new version of the same mixer which is upgraded 1600 watts RMS I think, along with some other cool features. The trade in cost for the new one would be $450 I think if I read it correctly on their site. Not too bad for a new powered mixer.

 

[sequencepro]

I've seen two Mackie onyx boards, a Peavey 12 ch., and a behringer 3282 do this, all starting on individual channels, and ALL got progressively worse, with more and more channels going bad over time.

If it's the mixer, get rid of it, and let someone else deal with it.

HOWEVER, I've seen a bad cable exhibit the exact same symptoms, and the cable TESTED GOOD! It would pass electricity but not a weak signal.

If you do decide to clean it, I've had good luck cleaning the 1/4" jacks with a .25 calibre (caliber) gun cleaning brush in a drill. I also bought a set of brake cleaning brushes from Harbor Freight Tools for $12 that worked good.

The XLRs are a little harder. (but someone on this site probably has an super easy method I haven't thought of... ALL of us are definitely smarter than ANY of us!).

And hopefully the pots aren't sealed, or you're out of luck. It's usually the gain/trim pot, but that's just from my limited experience. Someone on here who deals with repairs on a daily basis might have more insight on that.
Good luck!

 

[supersam]

I'll try some other cables and see if that makes a difference, and definitely spray all the dust out of the insides. See what happens, then move onto cleaning out the jacks. I don't think it's the jacks, or individual channels, but the amps themselves, or something to do with them. The L and R mains almost always work, and occasionally cut out, but very rarely. The monitor section started out by cutting out once in a great while, then got to the point where that section is completely unreliable.

I'll check the cables though, and definitely clean it out. It might just be getting to the point where it's been a good run, and time to get a new mixer

 

[TeleTim911]

I agree start by cleaning all jacks, and if you're able, open it up and check for a loose wire connector. Many manufacturers use these so you can pull different parts of the amp without pulling the whole works, and sometimes they come loose. Could be a single wire or a group of wires on a connector. I've seen that happen before. Easy fix.

 

[El Jefe]

My amp says each of the three amps runs 333 watts @ 4ohms, or 200 watts @ 8 ohms.

If I daisy chain two 8ohm cabs together off of one amp, the two 8ohm cabs are now 4ohms right? If so then I would be feeding 333 watts to both speakers vs 200watts to one? Would that put too much strain on the power amp because it would be only feeding 333watts to two speakers rated at 300 watts each?

Also, it looks like I could plug two speakers directly to each amp. Would it be better to do it that way vs daisy chaining?

Matters not which way you connect them they will still be "daisy chained" or connected in parallel and down to 4ohms as you described above. Your ohm load will determine how hard the amp works not the wattage rating. The amp appears to only be 4 ohm stable so don't drop below that and you should be fine. The only issue with having less wattage than the speaker rating is the total amp distortion level will be slightly higher and this hard square wave clipping is what can cause speaker failure, but I think you'll be just fine until you can get a replacement system.

 

[bettyseldest]

Until I replace this mixer, my main question is can I run 2 mains off of one amp (main L), and two monitors off of the other (main R), and do the same pain in the butt panning thing as I described above? Well, I know I can do it, but will it be bad for the power amps to daisy chain, and if not will each amp have enough juice to power two speakers? For the mains I'm using 2 passive Peavy TLS5 speakers (15" w/ horn, 8ohms I think, and 300watts handling power I believe). My monitors are CGM 12" passive, 200 watt, and 8ohms.

My amp says each of the three amps runs 333 watts @ 4ohms, or 200 watts @ 8 ohms.
View attachment 189652

Once a year we have a big gig where we mike the drums and amps. The PA amp is 300w per side into 4 Ohms. All my speakers are 200 watt and 8 Ohms. I have a pair of folded horns which are very efficient and handle the bass end of the spectrum well, and a pair of tops which we usually use for vocal PA. I run the folded horns in parallel from the left had side of the amp and the tops in parallel from the right. Bass, kick drum and keyboards are panned left, with vocals on the right. Guitars start in the centre and then tweaked a little left or right to get the clearest signal. If I push them left I need to lower the output as the speakers are much more efficient. It is fairly straightforward to set up and run and gives a decent sound without having to buy a pair of subs. So yes, it should work fine for you, but it sounds like it could well be time to get yourself a replacement.

 

[J. Hayes]

Hey supersam..........

Sorry about your troubles with your Carvin powered mixer. I have many of the same problems with mine. I have the 16 channel model and something is always not working. I had trouble with my monitors and I took it to the best local amp repair person in this area and they said they wouldn't work on Carvin products. I called Carvin and told them the problem and the guy said it'd be about $249 plus shipping to fix it. I asked him what if it was only one transistor and he told me that it was a flat rate and if it only took one transistor or if the whole thing had to be rebuilt, it was still $249 (I think that's the amount).... Anyway I shipped it to them and it worked well for a little over a year till the warranty ran out and it started acting up again. I called them and talked to a tech and he told me to set the whole thing up with speakers and everything and then call him back. I did that the next day and he talked me through some things to do just by resetting knobs and the damn thing started working again. That worked OK for a couple of gigs and then it started messing up again so I packed it up and put it on a shelf in the garage and it's been there for about five years now and I guess that's where it'll stay. I've had an old Fender 8 channel powered mixer for about 15 years and it just keeps right on pluggin' along with no problems whatsoever..... I don't think I'll ever buy another Carvin electronic device........JH in Va.

 

[El Jefe]

Sorry about your troubles with your Carvin powered mixer. I have many of the same problems with mine. I have the 16 channel model and something is always not working. I had trouble with my monitors and I took it to the best local amp repair person in this area and they said they wouldn't work on Carvin products. I called Carvin and told them the problem and the guy said it'd be about $249 plus shipping to fix it. I asked him what if it was only one transistor and he told me that it was a flat rate and if it only took one transistor or if the whole thing had to be rebuilt, it was still $249 (I think that's the amount).... Anyway I shipped it to them and it worked well for a little over a year till the warranty ran out and it started acting up again. I called them and talked to a tech and he told me to set the whole thing up with speakers and everything and then call him back. I did that the next day and he talked me through some things to do just by resetting knobs and the damn thing started working again. That worked OK for a couple of gigs and then it started messing up again so I packed it up and put it on a shelf in the garage and it's been there for about five years now and I guess that's where it'll stay. I've had an old Fender 8 channel powered mixer for about 15 years and it just keeps right on pluggin' along with no problems whatsoever..... I don't think I'll ever buy another Carvin electronic device........JH in Va.

Interesting. I have been using Carvin tube power amps for years without problems. Got a Carvin V series 4X12 that I love. The16 channel board we use in our rehearsal studio is a rickety piece of crap. I just thought ours was abused or something. Now me thinks Carvin studio gear just may not be built very well. We also hae a 28 year old Peavey board that runs just fine and it HAS been abused. I'm glad I saw this thread beacuse we were contemplating buying a newer Carvin board.

 

[Paul in Colorado]

I have a Carvin powered mixer from the '90's. It used to shut down going into thermal protection mode. It turned out that the jacks in the speakers were flakey and would lose contact with the plugs and cause the amp to shut down. Clean your jacks and if there's any way to retension them do so. (Hard to do on enclosed jacks) Make sure you're using good quality SPEAKER cables (not guitar leads).

 

[J. Hayes]

Hey El Jefe..........

I have another powered board which is an old Peavey 7 channel, 2 amp thing which runs both the mains and monitors. It's from around 1979 or '80 vintage or so.. I use it from time to time and the thing still puts out a good sound after over thirty years. It's the flat board with the wooden sides which may be even older than what I think it is..... I've had a Carvin guitar amp before and never had a problem with it but I have a friend who has a 16 channel board like mine and he's had a bunch of problems with it too...........JH in Va.

 

[El Jefe]

I have another powered board which is an old Peavey 7 channel, 2 amp thing which runs both the mains and monitors. It's from around 1979 or '80 vintage or so.. I use it from time to time and the thing still puts out a good sound after over thirty years. It's the flat board with the wooden sides which may be even older than what I think it is..... I've had a Carvin guitar amp before and never had a problem with it but I have a friend who has a 16 channel board like mine and he's had a bunch of problems with it too...........JH in Va.

That sounds exactly like the Peavey board we use. Too funny.

 

[supersam]

Update

So I finally opened up the Carvin powered mixer, and blew the dust out with some compressed air. There really wasn't much dust in there, even after 12 years of steady gigging, but some definitely blew out. And I made sure all the connections were seated properly. One wire connection may have been just slightly pulled out, but not much at all. I can't imagine it was enough to do anything, but I made sure it was pushed in tight. Closed it back up.

Now the monitor section is working!! I had it running for an hour or so, and it never cut out. I'm still not convinced it won't cut out at a gig, but it's promising. I'll see how it does for the next few gigs.

Thanks everyone for all the help