Can't get the 4 way to work with Mico Coils

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by Swingbass, Feb 3, 2012.

  1. Swingbass

    Swingbass TDPRI Member

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    I used this diagram with the uCoils and it's not working. I only get 2 combinations that is neck and parrallel with it. http://www.guitar-mod.com/rg_4wayinfo.html . I get sound from all 4, just not what is expected. The uCoils have 2 ground wires and a hot. I tied the blue and black ground wires together from a schematic perspective. I tripled checked my wiring and it's correct to the attached schematic that has seemingly worked countless times for folks. Is there something different about the uCoils or possibly the switch is defective? Has anyome successfully done the 4 way mod with uCoils? I haven't tried reversing the east- west orientation of the switch. It doesn't seem like it would matter as no instructions make any mention about it. I got frustrated and just put the 3 way back in for now.

    Thanks for the help and guidance in advance.

    EDIT: Blue & Black Neck to switch and Blue & Black Bridge to ground is where I have them. I realized my statement above is ambiguous. Also there is no cover. Sorry...
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2012
  2. garrett

    garrett Tele-Afflicted

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    Blue wire is shield and goes to the back of the volume pot.
     
  3. telex76

    telex76 Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    If you have 2 wires tied together going to ground then you didn't follow the schematic.
    You should have 2 wires going to the switch (where the diagram shows) and one wire going to ground on volume pot.
     
  4. honeycreek

    honeycreek Tele-Afflicted

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    The blue wire is the yellow "cover" wire on the diagram you linked to for the neck pickup. For the bridge, the blue will be attached to ground as well. I tend to think something else is the issue though as running the blue and black together would just cause noise problems not change the switching. If it was me, I would check the switch to make sure that it was switching how I thought it should be but you have to have a multimeter to do that...
     
  5. Swingbass

    Swingbass TDPRI Member

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    Thanks for the inputs. I'm a EE and have a Multi-Meter so I'm comfortable around the schematic. Let me clarify that I have the blue and black wire from bridge pup going to ground where ground is indicated as the place to be and that is in common with the pots casing. According to the Wilde site they are both ground wires. Not sure why there are 2 ground wires but there are (I'll check to confirm they are in fact 0 ohms between them). The neck pup has the blue & black going to the last switch position as there is no cover. The 3rd wire on ea is the hot lead that was going to the switch correctly as shown.

    I think I'll spend some time while watching the Superbowl to test & diagram the switch to see if it's the same in both directions. I'll also separate the neck ones as suggested. Please keep the ideas coming as I'm stumped at the moment.

    Thanks again!
     
  6. Phostenix

    Phostenix Tele-Afflicted

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    You should find no continuity between the Black & the Blue wires. The Blue wire is a ground wire for the frame of the pickup. The Black wire is the negative lead of the pickup coil.

    On the Neck pup, the Blue wire should go to the case of the Volume pot & the Black wire should go to the 4-way switch.
     
  7. Phostenix

    Phostenix Tele-Afflicted

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    I'm not sure what this means. Position 3 (Neck pup by itself) works & Position 2 (Neck & Bridge in parallel) works?
     
  8. honeycreek

    honeycreek Tele-Afflicted

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    In that case...

    The white and black are the two ends of the inductor/coil which is what makes a pickup and the blue is the shielding ground. All of the blue wires should be connected straight to ground and then you wire the rest per the diagram.

    Use your multimeter to check the wiring:

    -In the bridge switch position, the white lead of the bridge pickup should be connected directly to where the tip of the guitar cable touches (+ output). The black should measure the pickup resistance to the + output.

    -In the second position, both pickups/coils are in parallel. Both white should show dead short to + output. Both blacks should be dead short to themselves and the ground output (where the sleave touchs).

    -In the 3rd position, it is neck only. See directions for checking the bridge only substitute the neck pickup.

    -In position 4, the coils are run in series. The white of one pickup (with black to ground) will be connected to the black of the other (which will have white to the output). In the diagram you used, the bridge black is to ground so the bridge white will be attached to the neck black and the neck white will go to the out.

    For working out switching schemes, I usually draw the schematic out of what I am trying to accomplish. Drawing two coils on a piece of paper and placing them in series and parallel make it a little easier to see what you are trying to accomplish with the switch.
     
  9. Swingbass

    Swingbass TDPRI Member

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    Honeycreek: Awesome and Thank you! This makes sense to me now. I'll post back the results.
     
  10. honeycreek

    honeycreek Tele-Afflicted

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    I forgot to mention, if you have the switch out, make sure that the switching does what it should. For each side on a 4 way, there is 1 common that connects to 1 of the other points at each stop of the switch.
     
  11. Swingbass

    Swingbass TDPRI Member

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    Still an Issue

    OK, It's still messed up. I made the changes to separate the neck signal return and ground as directed above. I confirmed the switch has 2 points in common on each position per side, there's no connection between the blue (shield) and black (return), I wired in exactly the way the diagram shows. Triple checked it and I'm still having an issue. Positions 1 (towards back) is parrallel, position 2 is identical so correct, position 3 is neck only as is position 4 but for a different reason. I made a table of all the connections and resistance value and then drew schematics for ea as shown based on the values measured. I'm out of ideas except maybe the 4 position switch is not correctly configured? That's unlikely as it's an Oak Grisby which is supposed to be a quality switch. Should I try a CRL or other brand?

    Here are the equivalent schematics after measuring each position. If it's too hard to read I can email it to you in pdf or jpeg. I thought it is curious that B- is a possible issue in both positions 1 and 4. Also curious is that B+ appears to be a no connect /float in position 3. I have a feeling that the schematic shown for position 4 is actually what 3 is supposed to be but I'm not sure. If anyone has equivalent schematics of a functioning unit constructed from measurements it would be most welcome. Thanks again for your help in this mystery.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Swingbass

    Swingbass TDPRI Member

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    GOT IT SOLVED!!!! Sometimes the most basics bite your butt. I decided to check the switch continuity while mounted on the plate. I had checked the switch out of the guitar and it checked out as described above and I knew my wiring was correct so it had to be mechanical. SO, Dawn breaks on Marblehead (a local seacoast town) as they say around here and I took the switch off the plate an VOILA' it works as advertised. The clue was the issue in positions 1 and 4 only which obviously are the end positions.

    Root cause is the slot for the switch is not long enough to allow full travel of the arm at each end. Thus at each end it would cause a short to the adjacent tab. To these old eyes I couldn't see the wiper just barely touching but touching they were as proved by my multi-meter. Tomorrow I'll extend the slot at each end with a small round file.

    I never saw this in the searching I did so I guess it's a rare event. Thanks again for everyone's help. Maybe this thread will help someone in the future.
     
  13. Phostenix

    Phostenix Tele-Afflicted

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    One more reason I prefer 5-way switches over 4-ways. :)

    Glad you got it working.
     
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