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Can't bring myself to buy a Joyo pedal, new or used

Discussion in 'The Stomp Box' started by CV Jee Beez, Aug 26, 2018.

  1. BoogerRooger

    BoogerRooger Poster Extraordinaire

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    Its' probably been mentioned here already but the first Marshall amp, the JTM45 was based on the circuit of the Fender Bassman using parts available in Britain.
     
  2. bgmacaw

    bgmacaw Poster Extraordinaire

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    China is a very different culture from ours. I suggest you go over to YouTube and check out the AdvChina and Serpentza channels. It's a lot different than what you might think and they tend to point our criticisms of them right back at our shortcomings.
     
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  3. tdu

    tdu Friend of Leo's

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    The only 'point' I see to posts like the OP's is for someone to either feel good about themselves, or try to make someone else feel bad about themselves. There would be no reason to make the post in the first place otherwise. They would simply just go out and buy what they want to buy.
     
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  4. DeVilleDude

    DeVilleDude Tele-Holic

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    Boycotting Joyo for the OP's stated reasoning, in my opinion, will leave him with only a handful of pedals to choose from, regardless of country of origin. Hope he likes a very small board, because almost every pedal available 'borrows' intellectual property from another.
     
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  5. 3-Chord-Genius

    3-Chord-Genius Poster Extraordinaire

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    I don't care if a pedal is made in North Korea by children paid 20 cents a year working 28 hours a day... with my very limited income, I still have the desire to purchase the best my money can buy. I have several Joyo pedals, love them, and gig with them.
     
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  6. NWinther

    NWinther Friend of Leo's

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    Every country is deep down a bunch of hypocrites...
    Anyways the circuits are basic as in basic...and most of them are variations upon variations.
    Back to the issue....we all contribute to this world of ours by using and using...consume without much thought....we have made this on our own accord, and now we are stuck bigtime in a circle that is quite hard to break...
    And guitar equipment is a luxury, from cheap to expensive.
    The whole way we live is a luxurious way of living....my guess is that on this board all has a roof and food....

    It is all in all an absurdity to even beging thinking about it....
    Deep down it is shi-te!
    But it is our world, and we defently made it that way ourselves!
     
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  7. Musekatcher

    Musekatcher Friend of Leo's

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    That's a good reason for your purchase choice. You win.
     
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  8. hemingway

    hemingway Poster Extraordinaire

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    As much of Western economic prosperity is historically based on resources stolen from Africa and the Far East . . . nyah, I wouldn't worry about it. They kind of deserve a bit of payback.
     
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  9. uriah1

    uriah1 Telefied Gold Supporter

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    I think all the 20dollar pedals, and there are many (Joyo,Donner,Behringer,Mooer) should
    all be taken with (caveat emptor) . You may luck out, and you may have some DOA.

    imho
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2018
  10. tfarny

    tfarny Friend of Leo's

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    I couldn't care less about whether or not the OP buys Joyo pedals, to be clear. If you don't think they are good quality, hell if you don't like colors or the sound of the word "Joyo," or whatever, your reasons are what they are. Hell, a ton of people on here wouldn't ever buy a PRS because of the shape of the (very well engineered!) headstock. I just think the "Asian stuff is junk" idea is so obviously bogus it needs to be challenged and the "IP theft" thing is a complete non issue in the realm of guitar parts. The "Buy USA" argument is too silly to debate...the world economy doesn't work like that anymore, if it ever did. You know, all the parts that go into a $300 boutique pedal are made overseas. And you won't buy stuff made in poor countries because the workers there are paid less? Cmon. What, they should starve instead? Check the labels of your clothes, the "foreign made" % of your Ford or GMC, on and on and on. The world where country of manufacture matters is long gone and isn't coming back.

    In my experience, Joyo pedals are a great value but they're probably not as durable as a Boss, the most famously durable pedal...made in Taiwan since 1990.
     
  11. scottser

    scottser Friend of Leo's

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    i like the joyo stuff, and it definitely has its place in the market. for someone starting out building a pedal board you can't do better. but as they say -'buy cheap, buy twice'. i'd rather go for a 2nd hand boss than a new joyo or similar personally but i'd have no problem using one.
     
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  12. luckett

    luckett Banned

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    As you're wrapping yourself in self-righteousness and the glory of the Suhr Riot, it's probably the right time to mention that it's essentially a clone of the Australian designed and manufactured MI Audio Crunch Box (that sold for about $100) and was gooped to hide the fact that they "borrowed" the circuit.


    [​IMG]
     
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  13. jvin248

    jvin248 Doctor of Teleocity

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    Businesses chase lower wage rates because many have >75% labor cost and a fragile 5%-10% profit that gets destroyed when labor costs go up. Clothing and Toy manufacturers are often the first canaries in the mine shaft of increasing costs. Don't stop at the evil business leaders though, ask why labor rates are lower?

    Dig below the surface, and you'll uncover tax rates. Income taxes, fuel taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, import/export taxes... Somewhere I suspect there is a tax on a tax someone knows about. One person said the US has a fifty percent tax rate when all added up (or higher). Quite a few countries have "half the wage costs" as here, hmmm. Governments decide if they want to be competitive and business simply moves.

    Cost of living starts with housing where rents/mortgages are underpinned by tax, adds transportation where fuel tax is often much greater than 30%, and food where if you eat at a restaurant you pay tax on the food (farmers growing food, distributors, and grocery retailers certainly paid taxes to add to their, and your, cost at the grocery store). States and cities tax retailers ("fairness" solution? Tax Internet sales!). Some workers pay income taxes to Federal, State, and even the City the factory is in.

    Why do workers not see this trend? Because the press is telling everyone about the squalid working conditions and toxic factory practices so no one looks any deeper. Governments are like any organism that grows until met with war, revolution ... or businesses moving away to lower labor countries.

    We've had guitars made in each of these countries until it got too expensive: Japan, Mexico, Korea, China, Indonesia, India, and likely soon ??? Guitars are still built in these countries but prices are very high and unit sales are very low in comparison to what they had been.

    At one time all of the North Eastern United States was full of clothing factories as the low cost global supplier compared with high cost/high quality British factories. Blue jeans were made in the US by Levi for the California miners and cowboys and now most jeans are supplied by some low ... tax country.

    .
     
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  14. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I always wonder how a thread like this is not a political discussion.
     
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  15. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    When discussion of morals, ethics, values and personal choices becomes an argument, it may be an issue because we stopped "treating everyone with respect".

    It would be really hard in this global economy that many love to point out, for us to discuss gear without discussing where it's made, or the reasons we choose stuff that suits our values and functions.

    If we value cheap prices we get human rights issues in the package.
    Plus in many cases lower quality and reliability, fakes that violate intellectual property and copyright laws, and most importantly we get runs of pedals that arrive non functional or break in a few months of use.

    The value in sharing info on the products we buy is much of the core of this forum.

    It seems well established that many Joyo pedals break in a short period of use, as well as that many from Mosky and other Chinese brands simply do not work at all.

    Mix all the minuses of buying Chinese copy/ knockoff products, and we have lots to discuss.

    Too bad it causes so much defensive reaction.
     
  16. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Friend of Leo's

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    I have no problem buying Joyos or Calines, probably for roughly the same reason I have no problem killing small insects and reptiles, and maybe the occasional rodent. But could never in a million years purposely kill a dog. In other words, I have no real arguable justification, other than what keeps me up at night.

    As far as "Made in America" is concerned, I think it worthy to note that only in very recent years has the US at large started coming to grips with the fact that the primary author of the Constitution owned slaves, fathered several kids with a slave whom he never actually freed, despite promising he would (to get her to come back from Paris, where she was actually free), and still died heavily in debt, despite being considered the main Renaissance Man of his time.

    In other words, we're certainly not going to answer a centuries-long debate on what constitutes acceptable work conditions and economic standards or ideologies any time soon, much less on a guitar forum.
     
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  17. radiocaster

    radiocaster Poster Extraordinaire

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    O.k., Chinese pedals are made in factories and not workshops, but a lot of the US boutique pedals are also based on other pedals.
     
  18. joealso

    joealso Tele-Holic

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    Dude. I think you're missing the point. This is not apples and apples with regard to the OP's issue. If the Beach Boys had been from China, then that would be a different story. ;)
     
  19. bgmacaw

    bgmacaw Poster Extraordinaire

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    The Chinese will respond with a criticism of various US policies.

    It has been pointed out to you numerous times in this thread that this does not apply to electronic circuits. I wouldn't buy a counterfeit Boss pedal but I have no problem buying a pedal based on the same circuit design.

    I have bought 30 or so of these inexpensive pedals over the past 3 years or so. None have arrived DOA. All but one are still in working order and the one that isn't was probably my fault for plugging in the wrong power connector. Some have been less than what I expected while others have been great.
     
  20. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Your pointing out to me that there is no protection of intellectual property WRT pedal circuits fails to make me want all the other baggage that comes with cheap Chinese pedals.

    The thread is not suggesting Joyo pedals are illegal.

    It does bring up the fact that there are lots of illegal knockoffs coming from China, and seems to allow that Joyo is not making knockoffs of pedals, only copies of circuits.

    The thread seems to be about choosing what we buy from where based on a bigger picture.

    It's true that more and more people are throwing up their hands and accepting that the new global economy has our landfills overflowing with Chinese import junk, so we just keep buying it and don't even care any more.

    They have beaten us.
    They gradually own more and more of the US.
    Consume consume consume.

    Interestingly, China up until this last year or so was buying our sorted recycled materials to make more disposable products out of the disposable products they sold us and we threw away.
    Just recently they stopped buying our recycling.
    So our landfills are getting maybe double or triple the tonnage of junk.

    As the US makes less and less products, we will have to stop recycling entirely, if we cannot find a market for all the recyclable materials we throw away.

    And really, the only reason we are in this situation is we feel a need for larger and larger numbers of products but aren't willing to pay more to get more, so we buy tons of cheap disposable stuff, and then pay somebody to bury it in landfills.

    Intellectual property laws around circuitry doesn't make this paradigm attractive!

    And as the OP noted, the vast used pedal market has tons of options for affordable used higher quality pedals, so there is really very little need to buy disposables.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2018
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