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Can't bring myself to buy a Joyo pedal, new or used

Discussion in 'The Stomp Box' started by CV Jee Beez, Aug 26, 2018.

  1. bgmacaw

    bgmacaw Poster Extraordinaire

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    They have made several unique or less common designs but it's the clones that sell well in the US market. One example is their Tai Chi. Because the the zen graphic some forumites assumed it was a Zendrive clone but it's not. It's a rather dark voiced overdrive/distortion. Another is their "Orange Juice" pedal, an Orange amp sim pedal.

    Not at all. Most of theirs are as different as the big US names are from each other and they have some unique spins on classic circuits.

    If you do want to take a Chinese company to task for making direct circuit clones, that would be Caline. Their pedals are good but all are almost identical to the originals.
     
  2. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

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    It dreams it's from the US and it sounds sorta American :)
    I love my Joyo American Sound and my Joyo Sweet Baby. I also have their Ultimate Drive, and it's okay
     
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  3. Musekatcher

    Musekatcher Friend of Leo's

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    Even though, the parts that go in any pedals state-side, are the same parts made in Asia? A pedal is just these parts assembled. I think you are overestimating what a pedal is. Its just a bag of parts, and all those parts come from the Pacific Rim, even if its says Mesa, Fender, etc, on the outside.
     
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  4. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Hey, fair enough!

    With the massive used pedal market and a little time, you can buy any circuit (or functional ballpark) you want without going with a Chinese pedal.
    If you absolutely must have the Riot circuit I'm not sure what options there are that aren't a (domestic/ clone/ hobby/ kit build) ripoff aside from waiting for a deal on a used one, which given the far higher build quality that the Joyo (which fans of Joyo claim break, so buy two), is a fair deal at under $100 used.

    If you keep looking for deals on hand built/ boutique/ high quality/ choose your search words pedals, you can find $175 pedals for $50 on a regular basis.

    One thing many of us find is that if we line up all the popular MIAB pedals at a gig and switch between them all, we hear very very similar sounds once the pedal pushes our chosen amp into the mix.
    The CMATMODS Brownie is a cheaper hand built variety that sells reasonably used since it retails well below the Suhr price, but now Suhr reloaded bring more than the older versions anyhow.

    I've only bought a couple of Chinese pedals and pretty much wish I hadn't aside from now knowing what they do.
    Been very tempted to buy a Joyo because they're so cheap, but then didn't because they're so cheap! No regrets...
     
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  5. CV Jee Beez

    CV Jee Beez Tele-Afflicted

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    I have no problem believing they sound great. The problem is how they got that way.
     
  6. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Circuits are not intellectual property, or I should say, they are not legally protected as such.

    Because of the functional nature of the mask geometry, the designs cannot be effectively protected under copyright law (except perhaps as decorative art). Similarly, because individual lithographic mask works are not clearly protectable subject matter, they also cannot be effectively protected under patent law, although any processes implemented in the work may be patentable.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_circuit_layout_design_protection

    So, it's not theft. No more than it was theft when Jim Marshall copied the Bassman circuit, or the Beach Boys changed the lyrics to Chuck Berry's Sweet Little Sixteen and turned it into Surfin USA. OR when Chuck Berry copped the riff of Johnny B. Goode from his pianist.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2018
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  7. Salsg

    Salsg Tele-Meister

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    Hmm......
    I bet if there's another thread started with the concept that it's so wrong (because of another buzzword like "corporate greed") to charge $200 for a few parts inside a pedal box that only cost the maker (in this case a boutique builder) a few dollars. I mean the parts can't cost that much more than the ones used in the Chinese copies.
     
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  8. tfarny

    tfarny Friend of Leo's

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    And as so many people have mentioned, IP has zero to do with it. Do you boycott the boutique US Tube Screamer clones, the US handwired tweed Fender clones? I think a lot of people, not just me, are sick and tired of blatant virtue signaling like this, and the fact that it's really not about IP but about "us" versus "them" at some level.
     
  9. Dixon in Korea

    Dixon in Korea Tele-Meister

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    I have a harmonic tremolo pedal based on the circuit of a brownface Fender that was built by a Canadian with mostly Asian-manufactured parts. I have no idea how I’m supposed to feel about that.
     
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  10. Musekatcher

    Musekatcher Friend of Leo's

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    Some folks don't realize all the components inside a pedal are already pre-fabricated in Asia, and shipped to the US and elsewhere. Its like plumbers and plumbing parts: they don't make the parts, they just assemble them. And there's only so many ways to assemble those circuit/plumbing parts. I know it removes some of the mystery around circuitry. Remember Santa Claus? Santa and plumbing parts are also imported btw.
     
  11. DrBGood

    DrBGood Tele-Holic

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    Bingo !

    Just get rid of it, send it to me, I have no conscience whatsoever about gear provenance.
     
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  12. MrGibbly

    MrGibbly Tele-Afflicted

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    We all have our set of criteria that we apply in some kind of priority order when we make purchasing decisions and kudos to you for sticking to yours. Over the years I've found that I am happiest with purchases that tick all of my own personal odd little boxes. I don't regret it later. I don't have buyers remorse. It doesn't nag me every time I use the item. On the other hand, I can live with myself if I make a purchase that I learn something new from...that's a whole different ball of yarn! (One that I enjoy...a lot...which gets expensive.)
     
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  13. bluesholyman

    bluesholyman Friend of Leo's

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    I remember an “Undercover Boss” episode doing their thing with Peavey talking about how they weren’t going to close a plant and people would still have their jobs. A few months after it was filmed, Peavey had closed the US factory the episode hilited and moved production overseas because they could no longer compete using American labor. After I saw that, I pretty much decided not to buy Peavey ever again - mostly because Hartley’s son lied to the staff, knowing production would have to move. I am sure this has happened with most every other company in the US too....but seeing it through that show struck me enough to make that decision. I suspect I will own a US made Classic 30 or Delta Blues at some other time down the road...

    I don’t think I know where half the things i buy are made. If its made in the US, I like it and I can afford it, I will gladly buy that because I’d like to keep it at home.

    I tend to not like cheaply made pedals, mostly because I don’t think they sound good, or I don’t think they will hold up. While I think Fulltone makes some great pedals, and I have owned them before, there is just something about his stuff that I don’t care for - OCD is a great pedal, but don’t own one, don’t want one. I like what JRAD does with how he voices his pedals and I own three - no idea were they are made, but I suspect here in the US.

    I respect the decision to stand on your principles. The only principle I can claim is do I like how it sounds? At the end of the day, that is what matters when I am playing.
     
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  14. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Is it worse to state that "I don't buy Chinese copies of a current production proprietary pedal", than it is to state that "I'm sick and tired of people who state that they don't buy Chinese copies of a current production proprietary pedal"?

    WRT Tweed Fender clones and TS clones, those were long ago abandoned by the original designer builder.
    Even when Marshall copied the Bassman, Fender had abandoned the design years earlier.

    I didn't think the OP was bragging about his own virtue, or shaming buyers of Joyo pedals.
    Seems like he was simply stating his feelings.

    But then it became a somewhat pointless argument....
     
  15. archtop_fjk

    archtop_fjk Tele-Holic

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    I think it's safe to say that the pedal cloning ship sailed a looong time ago (the most prominent member of the fleet being the S.S. Klon :rolleyes:).

    And as a hobby pedal builder, I hope most people realize that for 95% of all the popular effect circuits ever made, there is either a printed circuit board you can purchase or a veroboard layout you can construct for the circuit. And for $30 or so of parts, you too can build your own pedal for less than most overseas clones.

    So why am I about to purchase a (non-overseas) delay pedal for nearly $200, even though there is a $70 Chinese-made alternative? Let's just say that I value rugged construction, low noise circuit design, reliable operation, and functionality.
     
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  16. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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  17. Thin white duke

    Thin white duke Friend of Leo's

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    :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
     
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  18. wulfenganck

    wulfenganck Tele-Afflicted

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    Well, this is a bit a can of worms, isn't it?
    You avoid Joyo because of its philosophy of only copying other brands (which is partly arguable, as they also do stuff of their own, at least with a twist of their own). Anyway, that's okay, I too think it's worth to support the original designer.
    But then: ordering a brand that's produced in China will always have a connotation of supporting a country with horrible human rights violations, rather crucial working conditions, careless and massive air/water pollution.
    Pretty much as with India or Indonesia, were there may not be as much human rights issues, but were other issues are obvious.
    I'm not promoting to buy from small boutique companies only, but I just find it odd blaming Joyo as copyists, but happily buying Boss......or Apple....or Nike....or....whoever just because of the original design, whereas they all produce in other countries that simply s...t on their people......welcome to the modern world of globalism ;)
     
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