Can you relate to this?

hotraman

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5C7340DD-311B-4F40-8658-A445F26A5007.jpeg
 
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hotraman

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It took me awhile to figure how to link. One of my fellow worship leaders created a meme with me in it.
 
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Teladjacent

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I’m curious to hear what others think of click tracks. Sometimes it sounds to me like the band is actually less together when getting cues and playing to the click. It’s less likely to completely fall apart, but almost guaranteeing the groove suffers.

I’m not an expert. Genuinely curious what others think.
 

Grenville

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I've got no problem with a click. Consistent tempo, nice.

I do have a problem with the endgame of nonprofessionals (in my case, the older youth group kids) getting hold of backing track multitracks. In our place the youth band ended up using these tracks as the core music and their part was to jam along. Fine and good if that practice stayed on Friday nights. However as these fine people got older and started playing on Sundays, all of them could make a joyful noise but none of them knew the basic mechanics of playing in or playing as a band.

When the same kids end up on the sound team and mix pre-recorded instruments as loud or louder than live performed instruments, experienced musicians (ie me, and others) get tired of asking for the tracks to be turned down because I'm actually here and now playing that part. After 13 years on team I left.

One of my friends who stuck it out on e-guitar asked advice on a drive pedal that will help him cut through the mix. He owns vintage AC30, Les Paul, Tele, various Rat, Dumblesque, Tube Screamer drives, etc. He doesn't need a different drive, he needs to get the tracks turned off.

P.S. Steve, I'd roll my eyes at that meme if it were me, but it's very disrespectful.
 

studio

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I’m curious to hear what others think of click tracks. Sometimes it sounds to me like the band is actually less together when getting cues and playing to the click. It’s less likely to completely fall apart, but almost guaranteeing the groove suffers.

I’m not an expert. Genuinely curious what others think.
I'd rather clean gas station toilets than follow a click track.

I've actually heard click tracks running at 240 because
the AV guy thinks that's where the groove is!
None of the musicians have the sense to tell the guy
he's totally off the scale and it's should be 120 instead!

Church gigs are a different animal all together.
You can't really blame the musicians or the AV crew.
Being in a church environment might signify that
people need work in their lives, so they congregate.

Trust me, I will always tell you what I think!
Thanks.
 

mnfidel

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I'd rather clean gas station toilets than follow a click track.
That made me chuckle :)

A click is just an objective reminder (ruthless and unforgiving as it is) of where the beat is. There are times when that is useful, for example an upbeat/uptempo song where a consistent beat is important, to keep from speeding up or slowing down. There are times when it is not, for example a slower reflective/expressive song where it may be desired to intentionally stretch a note or a measure here and there (the metronome is a terrible burden in those cases, gives no flexibility at all). A musician should be able to play with or without a click, as appropriate to the situation.

I will say a metronome is an essential part of personal practice, and everyone should regularly use one there, even if it doesn't come to the service (or performance / gig).
 

hotraman

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It was a joke, and the girl is a close friend, amazing worship leader and musician. Her dreads look a lot better than that picture.
I've gotten better as a musician by playing with a click track.
Playing with backing tracks? There are times when I turn them down in my mix, and then other times when I want all of the keyboard parts.
Its true: some of the younger generation of WL's are becoming too dependent on backing tracks.
This morning I played lead guitar at a church where the WL's are in the mid 20's. No backing tracks but we used a click. And then turned it off at times. I'm good with either.
 

studio

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That made me chuckle :)

A click is just an objective reminder (ruthless and unforgiving as it is) of where the beat is. There are times when that is useful, for example an upbeat/uptempo song where a consistent beat is important, to keep from speeding up or slowing down. There are times when it is not, for example a slower reflective/expressive song where it may be desired to intentionally stretch a note or a measure here and there (the metronome is a terrible burden in those cases, gives no flexibility at all). A musician should be able to play with or without a click, as appropriate to the situation.

I will say a metronome is an essential part of personal practice, and everyone should regularly use one there, even if it doesn't come to the service (or performance / gig).

I studied piano and performance synth
with conservatory trained teachers.
A heavy dose of metronome was standard
operating procedure.

I have had tempos drilled into my memory bank!
I used to be able to listen to a song and tell
you what tempo it was at. Maybe not so much these days.
I dunno, haven't had the opportunity to show off lately!

You wouldn't need a click if everyone was on the same
live stage level of playing. But once again, because it's
a church environment there are many variables involved.

A good rhythm section is priceless.
 

studio

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Setting aside playing with tracks, it seems that the drummer playing with a click is ok if they need it. Ideally, everyone else should groove with the drummer.
The drummer is but one component in a rhythm section.
That bass player should be able to make the drummer groove
and want to play in time.

Especially in a church setting. There can be many distractions.
I love to hear when bass players take over a song. they can
really make a band swing. The congregation gets into it too!
That's the point of P&W, to get the audience participating.
 

CapnCrunch

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Or to get them to not be the audience at all, if you know what I mean. ;)
This^^^^^😄
I love to hear when bass players take over a song. they can
really make a band swing. The congregation gets into it too!
That's the point of P&W, to get the audience participating.
Wait a minute, I thought the entire purpose of worship "music" was to not distract the congregation. 🤮

Seriously, I kid. Church musicians should be far more concerned with lighting a spark in the congregation that causes them to want to join in with the band. Sometimes folks need a small (or big) push, or pull as it were and a swinging bass is hard to ignore.....
 

Grenville

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Oh yes Teladjacent, but they swoon over the guitar solos.

Caveat: they usually don't tell you though.

Other caveat: swooning not limited to gender. But it's church, they usually don't tell you.

;)
 

Ascension

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I've got no problem with a click. Consistent tempo, nice.

I do have a problem with the endgame of nonprofessionals (in my case, the older youth group kids) getting hold of backing track multitracks. In our place the youth band ended up using these tracks as the core music and their part was to jam along. Fine and good if that practice stayed on Friday nights. However as these fine people got older and started playing on Sundays, all of them could make a joyful noise but none of them knew the basic mechanics of playing in or playing as a band.

When the same kids end up on the sound team and mix pre-recorded instruments as loud or louder than live performed instruments, experienced musicians (ie me, and others) get tired of asking for the tracks to be turned down because I'm actually here and now playing that part. After 13 years on team I left.

One of my friends who stuck it out on e-guitar asked advice on a drive pedal that will help him cut through the mix. He owns vintage AC30, Les Paul, Tele, various Rat, Dumblesque, Tube Screamer drives, etc. He doesn't need a different drive, he needs to get the tracks turned off.

P.S. Steve, I'd roll my eyes at that meme if it were me, but it's very disrespectful.

Boy you are nailing my situation. Where I am it's all tracks last Sunday there were 7 guitar tracks running so what am I supposed to do with this? Have had enough of it and was going to let them know I was leaving but now find out our worship leader will be gone all Febuary so am in limbo for now. I cant stand the blasted tracks anymore!
 

Ascension

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The drummer is but one component in a rhythm section.
That bass player should be able to make the drummer groove
and want to play in time.

Especially in a church setting. There can be many distractions.
I love to hear when bass players take over a song. they can
really make a band swing. The congregation gets into it too!
That's the point of P&W, to get the audience participating.
BINGO!
This is what has frustrated me to no end where I am now. With Mitch in the past it was free form last Sunday I was trying to find a hole to play in with 7 guitar tracks in one song.
To get there when this is where we had been is not computing.
 

Jakeboy

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If a click track is NEEDED, then we have a drummer issue. I will not play to a click. I hate that sound. I want the song tempo to ebb and flow a tiny bit, just like records of old. When the energy hits a couple bpm change can make the song and performance better.

Even in the studio I will not play to a click..,but I will play to a programmed drum groove in the studio. That is at least playing with a drummer…sort of and it will get a much better performance from me.

But I digress. Play to a click live? Never.
 

CapnCrunch

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I have been lucky enough not play with tracks in church. On the other hand, I don't have any objection to playing with a click. There are times when we turn the click off on sparse, slow reflective songs so that we have some freedom to change tempo. Over all though, I think a click helps all the musicians, especially the less experienced ones stay together even though they may chafe at it because they bump up against it often. If your church uses all pros, then you may not need the click, but ironically the pros will welcome (maybe even demand) the click in my experience because they recognize what it does for them.
 




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