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Can you direct out of your guitar amp and into the PA?

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by Craig Williams, Oct 23, 2020.

  1. Thoughtfree

    Thoughtfree Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    If you're in tune, smile, and play well, you will compensate for a mediocre guitar tone. IMHO.
     
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  2. El Marin

    El Marin Friend of Leo's

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    Because most of the "Line Out" sound quality is CRAP

    Said that, I own a Marshall Origin and the Line Out is superb. but I am still miced in venues nevertheless. Not for me but for the technician who doesn't believe me saying is a good DI and because they don't usually have jacks, only XLR plugs on stage

    I am considering making a connector
     
  3. Peegoo

    Peegoo Poster Extraordinaire

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    Here's one way to do it on the cheap.

    Obviously a direct box is better because it pads down the voltage and allows you to run your amp near or at full volume.

    This circuit is for low amp volume only. It requires no mods to your amp because it simply clips to the speaker's terminals; it can be housed in a small project box.

    One drawback is this has the potential to create a ground loop and generate extraneous noise in the signal.

    Keep your amp below 50% volume when using this line out.

    [​IMG]

    Back when I was gigging, I permanently installed an SM57 in the cabinet of my Doc Z 1x12 amp, pointed at the rear of the speaker cone, along with an XLR jack on the rear panel. When we wanted to mic the amps, all I needed to do was run a mic cable from the back of the amp to the board. If you try this mic thing, make sure to flip the phase on the wires between the mic and the jack, because you're micing the rear of the speaker cone and not the front.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
  4. Mr. St. Paul

    Mr. St. Paul Tele-Meister

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    I used the XLR out on my Egnater Rebel 30 for several years and it worked great. I eventually started using the 'Silent Record' feature on the amp, so the only output was through the XLR, nothing was coming from the amp. We were all using IEMs and it helped keep the stage volume down.

    I've been using modelers for several years and would go direct into the p.a. when we did our own production. I got huge pushback from sound techs when I wanted to do that through their system, so I started carrying a powered speaker to plug my floor unit into. They could stick a mic in front of it and we were both happy.

    I've noticed the younger the sound tech, the more receptive they are to going direct.

    Should also mention I play clean 90% of the time, and I don't play high gain at all.
     
  5. Marc Morfei

    Marc Morfei Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    I keep it simple. For my amps that have a direct XLR out, I use that and go direct. For those that don't, mic it. I have never needed a DI box for either of these scenarios, so I'm not sure what the need for one would be.
     
  6. Guitarteach

    Guitarteach Doctor of Teleocity

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    What amp you got?

    It depends on your amp.. my old 80’s mesa boogie DI was fizzy and my new Marshall DI with speaker emulation is usable but still a bit like listening to a transistor amp. When i record with it, I use a cab IR and that makes a big difference.
     
  7. Minivan Megafun

    Minivan Megafun Tele-Afflicted Gold Supporter

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    A lot of the newer digital amps have a direct out for this purpose. Direct DI on a guitar sounds like crap, but the digital units process the sound to simulate what it would sound like through a cabinet with a mic in front of it. Most, if not all, of these don't really sound exactly like a true cabinet but I guess it's up to you.
     
  8. Peegoo

    Peegoo Poster Extraordinaire

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    Try running your Microcube's line out to a board.

    It.

    Sounds.

    Huge.
     
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  9. Collin D Plonker

    Collin D Plonker Tele-Afflicted

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    I have had excellent results not using my amp at all, but using a Mooer Radar at the end of my pedal chain. It's a power amp/ speaker sim. The main reason I wanted it was to cut down on the gear I carry to practice, but now I would not hesitate to gig with it. I watched Pete Thorn demo it on YouTube, and I knew I had to get one. Alternately, I would mic my amp.
     
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  10. tubegeek

    tubegeek Friend of Leo's

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    Depends on how you dress.
     
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  11. FortyEight

    FortyEight Tele-Holic

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    I mean, not all small amps have an xlr out or line out. It would be nice if they did, but..... I personally find it kind of odd that a guitar would sound better mic'd but a bass isn't in the same ballpark. I would think it depends on the tone of your bass. I remember metal guys kind of liking alot of high end pop on their cabinets and didn't they even have some some speakers that have metal cones to achieve this?

    I guess maybe if your bass is just a normal low end frequency it's not as big of a deal..... I don't know, still seems like there would be a difference. I actually experimented on a song I recorded a bit ago and in one channel I had the direct out from my rumble 100 and the other side I did an SM58. The direct out was a brighter sound. But I didn't dislike the sound of the mic'd channel. It was clear and good but definitely did not have the high ends accentuated. Which I like better anyways.

    A sound guy that only wants to DI guitars and pulls tubes out of a dudes amp is a weird one for sure. I've never heard of that happening. LOL. That being said, takes all kinds... and music people can sometimes have some pretty strange ideas. I guess that's just people in general. LOL. Including me.
     
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  12. joe_cpwe

    joe_cpwe Tele-Holic

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    so many options these days

    I keep it simple and bring my own SM57 every time I play in front of people, that's church or a bar or a festival. If they can't mic my amp the way I want I introduce them to my little friend.
     
  13. tubegeek

    tubegeek Friend of Leo's

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    Whatcha got there?
     
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  14. srblue5

    srblue5 Tele-Meister

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    I could tell you stories for days about that guy (it wasn't our last encounter). Thankfully, I don't deal with him anymore and nobody touches my amp/gear without my permission.
     
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  15. tubegeek

    tubegeek Friend of Leo's

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    Maybe just one more? Pretty please?
     
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  16. srblue5

    srblue5 Tele-Meister

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    Really? Alright, ya talked me into it. :D

    The last time I dealt with him (a few years back), I was getting 60-cycle hum (with a P-90-loaded Gibson Les Paul Special -- my backup guitar was my '50s MIM Strat). We were in an older venue with a ton of fluorescent lights and the band was setting up its own coloured lights too. During soundcheck, the sound guy is losing his mind, rifling rather rudely through my pedalboard and cables to figure out what the culprit was, all while I kept repeating to him over and over that it was mostly likely due to the combination of the pickups, the wiring in the building, and the lights.

    Keep in mind, you could only hear the hum between songs and only when the lead singer wasn't introducing the next song or whipping the crowd into a frenzy.

    Finally, he says to me, "Why don't you use your [insert my profession] money to buy a Gibson?" I silently pointed to the headstock of my guitar. "Oh," he replies, "Then you should buy yourself a Fender instead." I then pointed to my backup Strat, sitting on the stand. He didn't know what to say next. I bit my tongue but really wanted to tell him, "Why don't you use the money you make from tonight to buy yourself some better glasses?"

    For what it's worth, I did rent a noise suppressor pedal the next time I played that venue just to avoid any further skirmishes. Thankfully, a different sound guy the next time didn't bat an eyelid -- he just placed an SM57 in front of my Bandit and left me alone.
     
  17. Chiogtr4x

    Chiogtr4x Poster Extraordinaire

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    I just got one of these Micro Cubes this week, really just for kicks, and to practice electric guitar in our apartment.
    20201018_212006.jpg 20201018_211935.jpg


    Then it hit me, " I bet I can run the Line OUT into the Input of a Clean amp, or PA channel..."
    So I tried this with my Fender Frontman ( running nice and clean AND with its Spring Reverb), and I can't believe how good this sounds!
    Edit: assuming this is safe/OK?
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
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  18. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    A true line out is what peegoo shows us above. It is taken off of the output transformers secondary. The signal strength is reduced to a line level and can be sent to a P.A. Board or a larger power amp for increased amplification or FOH balancing within the overall soundstage.
    side story....Randy Bachman of Guess ?Who and Bachman-Turner Overdrive fame was busy burning down amps by plugging his Fender champ’s output directly into a large Garnet stage amp. The owner of Garnet amps, Thomas Garnet Gillies, built the Herzog for Bachman so the larger amps would not suffer early demise. All the Herzog is is a Fender champ type of amp with a line out built in. I resurrected an old 5F1 that had been borrowed from the owner and much abused by the borrower...including a hogged out hole in the top chrome panel. I asked the owner if perhaps he would have a use for a line out. Since the hole was there, why not, right? He played in a country band and played Billy Bob’s in Ft. Worth several times with his little Champ utilizing the line out. Billy Bob’s is touted as being the largest dance hall in the world, fwiw.
    A line out signal does not ‘read’ the speaker output, but it is quite different from a preamp out, which does not involve any part of the output section of an amp. A line out also removes the problems that a mic can introduce...feedback, bleed-over.

    second side story.....the moral of the above story is never to lad equipment. That player’s friend who borrowed did not return the amp. The player’s father left a cafe in ?Snider, Tx one morn8ng and happened to see the little Champ in the back of the borrower’s pickup truck....rolling around in the dirt with tools and beer bottles. Recognizing the amp and knowing his son had loaned it t9 this fellow, The dad simply picked the amp out of the bed of the pickup and kept on walk8ng.
     
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  19. TwangToInfinity

    TwangToInfinity Tele-Afflicted

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    some of the 60's gibsons had the monitor out

    you can see it here

    [​IMG]



    ifaik its after the output


    and yes i know you know a lot about the gibsons Wally!
     
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  20. Peegoo

    Peegoo Poster Extraordinaire

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    Perfectly safe.


    Also...

    I have two Microcubes. I modded both by adding a speaker-out jack that defeats the internal speaker when a plug is jammed into the jack. I run one of them into a 2x12 when pals come over to jam, and it easily keeps up with 15-20 watt amps at window-rattling volumes. Hard to believe until you try. Here's how (click on the pic):

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
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