Can you check my wiring?

Discussion in 'Tele-Technical' started by illinismitty, Jan 23, 2020.

  1. illinismitty

    illinismitty TDPRI Member

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    I have to use a three way toggle on this partscaster.

    3 way toggle:
    1. Bridge
    2. Bridge and neck
    3. Neck

    I have a Dimarzio push pull so I can split the neck humbucker

    Take a look the the diagram. Do I have it correct? Where should I ground the toggle ground lug?

    [​IMG]
     
  2. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Looks OK. Ground can be anyplace, as long as all grounds ultimately connect to the output jack.

    That might seem confusing because the wire from the output jack dead-ends at the tone pot shell. But if both pots are tightened down on the metal control plate, there is continuity from the jack to the vol pot shell, where all your other grounding / common is taking place.

    I prefer to add a wire between the two pot shells, so I don't rely on the implicit circuit made by the pot hardware. Solder joints are more reliable than nuts and bolts. But many folks think it's overkill...
     
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  3. SPUDCASTER

    SPUDCASTER Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    I usually wire the tone cap from the tone pot to the lug that's grounded on the volume pot.

    Either way works.

    The extra wire between the pots isn't a bad idea. Removes all doubt.
     
  4. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Regarding that wire between the pot shells... without it, if either pot comes loose, or (as has happened to me) the chrome plating flakes, and you lose continuity, then one of three things can happen.

    If the volume pot can't get to the output, you have instant silence. Dead guitar.

    If it's just the tone pot that can't get to the output (like if you have it reversed from the above diagram, and have output jack attached to the vol pot), then you lose your tone control, but can keep playing.

    If it's some shielding that can no longer reach the output jack, you will have noise. Maybe a LOT, depending.

    So, when I see diagrams like the above, with the volume pot common separated from the jack by an implicit nuts-bolts connection, I cringe.

    If it's just loss of tone or shielding, I figure you take your chances if you want. But wiring the above, without the wire, risking a dead guitar, seems pretty silly to me. Again, I'm probably the outlier here, but also I never hear anyone bringing up the fact of the different failure scenarios, either...
     
  5. illinismitty

    illinismitty TDPRI Member

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    Like this?

    [​IMG]
     
  6. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Sorry, like this... what? What am I looking for in that pic?

    EDIT:
    Oh, the ground from the switch. Sure. Like I said, anyplace. As long as all grounds ultimately connect with the jack.

    Ah, I see you added a wire between the pots, too. Yep.
     
  7. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Can you see how that would still work, even if there were no conductive control plate? The volume pot common (right lug in the pic) connects to the vol pot shell; which connects via that wire you added, to the other pot shell. Which connects to the jack. So now your whole signal chain is soldered.
     
  8. illinismitty

    illinismitty TDPRI Member

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    I do now. Thanks for the help. Wiring makes my head hurt.
     
  9. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    It helps me to look at it bit by bit. For this application it's OK to think of it like plumbing. The electrons flow from the power company, up into the guitar on the common/ground side. Into the pickup, around the coils, and out to the switch or volume pot. And ultimately to the hot lug on the jack.

    The key is understanding that the electrons just want to take the easiest path possible to get back to the power company. That's it. Everything comes from that premise.
     
  10. Tuxedo Poly

    Tuxedo Poly Tele-Afflicted

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    I use the Fender layout, fewer wires, less soldering and no possibility of loss of ground continuity due to a pot nut unscrewing. The treble bleed is optional.

    Never understood why Seymour Duncan diagrams show the tone cap soldered to the back of the tone pot. I'm with moosie on that one.

    Tele_basic_wiring_with_treble_bleed.jpg
     
  11. illinismitty

    illinismitty TDPRI Member

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    I have another question. My practice room has some EMI. Would copper tape be recommended, and if so, just the pickup cavities? There is no metal control plate on the front, just holes for the pot shafts. The pot cavity is accessed from the back
     
  12. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Thing is, Fender doesn't actually always do it that way. I can't remember which of mine it was, but possibly my AV58, that was done the 'worst' way, with silence being the result of a loose pot. Can't check, because I tend to re-wire my guitars .... nothing stays precisely stock for long.
     
  13. illinismitty

    illinismitty TDPRI Member

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    So is that right lug on the volume soldered to the top?
     
  14. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    If you use copper tape, apply a blob of solder across all joints to ensure continuity. The stuff with the conductive adhesive only stays conductive for a couple years, then degrades and you lose grounding on your shield, and begin to have weird noises.

    Shield the control cavity, and twist the hot and common leads together, fairly tightly, evenly done. Do that on the jack, and each pickup (at least until you enter the shielded cavity).

    If you have static generated from a plastic pickguard, then you may need apply shielding to the underside of that. I find that static is as much of a problem as RFI. Bakelite guards don't seem to generate static like the plastic 1- or 3-ply do.

    Make sure all shields are grounded. For the pickguard, I sometimes run a strip of copper up out of the control cavity, onto the body, extending under the pickguard, right near the screw.
     
  15. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Yup. Or you can use a short piece of wire, like if you think you might ever want to re-use that pot elsewhere...
     
  16. illinismitty

    illinismitty TDPRI Member

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    So if I run the other capacitor leg to the right lug of the volume pot (like in that fender diagram), I can eliminate the ground I drew from the top of the volume to top of tone pot? Because there will be a wire going from that right lug to top of volume. I am trying to use your plumbing analogy.

    Also, where do you put the barewire from the humbucker?
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  17. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    All shielding must be grounded. Pot shells are shields. The wire between pot shells, and then from volume shell to volume right lug, at the very least ensures that the shields are grounded, if you don't have a conductive control plate, for whatever reason (rear access PRS style, pots came loose, etc).

    The ground path is also the path for the neutral side of the circuit loop, aka the 'common' (as opposed to 'hot'). So, in addition to grounding the pot shell, it's reasonable to attach 'stuff' to those shells - they make for easy soldering a bunch of things - stuff that is not shield, but actually part of the circuit, the common. This can be the neutral leg of your pickup, or the grounded leg of the tone cap, etc.

    If you connect stuff like that to the tone pot shell, it's fine, but you really want to make sure you have that path to the jack to complete the circuit, otherwise you lose more than shielding.


    I think this will address your question:

    If you run the tone cap to the vol ground lug, and have nothing else connected to the tone pot shell, then you just need that extra wire to ensure shield-grounding. The connection from vol shell to vol ground lug is the same thing. Whatever is connected to the shell, needs to get to the output jack. If nothing, at least the shell/shield needs grounded.

    You can do this any number of ways, and it's no electrical difference. If you bend the vol lug and solder it to the shell, that's difficult to undo, thus relegating that pot to one use, forever. You can run the cap leg long, through the vol ground lug, and solder it to the vol shell. That works, but again, can be difficult to undo, since you'll be trying to heat and de-solder two things at once (shell and lug). For ease of maintenance, I use separate wires for those things.


    Not sure if any of that helped see through the mud...
     
  18. illinismitty

    illinismitty TDPRI Member

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    No pickguard. Single coil modern bridge, humbucker neck (pick up ring). What about shielding paint vs copper tape?

    here is the body for reference.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  19. moosie

    moosie Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I wouldn't bother shielding the pickup cavities unless you really need to. Can always do it later.

    For the rear cavity, I'd use copper foil (or some folks like aluminum, but it does oxidize... meh). Both are more conductive than paint, in my experience. But I'm sure paint works too...
     
  20. illinismitty

    illinismitty TDPRI Member

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    Thanks Moosie. If you ever make it to Nashville, let me buy you a beer.
     
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