Boogie
Tele-Meister
Anyone heard or used CBS Black Plate 6v6GTs? GE Coin Base? Sylvania Black Glass? RCA Grey Glass? RCA Metal?
Good tubes for a vintage Deluxe or Princeton?
Good tubes for a vintage Deluxe or Princeton?
Can we talk 6v6 tubes?
- Thread starter Boogie
- Start date
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ummm... I can contribute a little here, but there are folks on the board with far more experience than me.
I've had a bunch of misc old tubes -- often raided from old radios, console stereos, or off-brand guitar amps. I have a tester and usually can sort out ones that are burned beyond any real use. BUT they're not NOS.
basically, the USA made GT types (glass) will probably be good. there's some variability in flavors, but you can't really go wrong. metal types get hot, and haven't been used much since WWII. RCA's are favorites of many -- I have some gray glass in an old silvertone 1482. I use an RCA gray plate 6v6gt in my little champion 600. Coin base were a rather late variant, and aren't usually listed as favorites. I used Brimar's in my '66 princeton reverb before I traded it. Except for the metal type, you'll probably like the results in the amps you list... the might have a little different breakup - but only you will know what sounds right (to you).
there are some perfectly good 6v6 types being made now (jj, for example)... BUT I tend to really favor the old stock.
I've had a bunch of misc old tubes -- often raided from old radios, console stereos, or off-brand guitar amps. I have a tester and usually can sort out ones that are burned beyond any real use. BUT they're not NOS.
basically, the USA made GT types (glass) will probably be good. there's some variability in flavors, but you can't really go wrong. metal types get hot, and haven't been used much since WWII. RCA's are favorites of many -- I have some gray glass in an old silvertone 1482. I use an RCA gray plate 6v6gt in my little champion 600. Coin base were a rather late variant, and aren't usually listed as favorites. I used Brimar's in my '66 princeton reverb before I traded it. Except for the metal type, you'll probably like the results in the amps you list... the might have a little different breakup - but only you will know what sounds right (to you).
there are some perfectly good 6v6 types being made now (jj, for example)... BUT I tend to really favor the old stock.
eugenedunn
Friend of Leo's
Any of the RCA 6V6GT's are to die for, tonewise and reliability-wise. I have favored them a lot over other makes.....
Tried some Brimars out in my 69 Princeton Reverb and found they lacked some of the bass response that the RCA's and Tung Sols i was using. Those Brimars were NOS too.
I was kinda disappointed because I had heard so much about them on other forums.... oh well.... in the end, it's an individual preference, ain't it? (^_^)
I did buy some NOS Sylvania 6V6GT's after trying out a bunch..... I felt these came the closest to the RCA's and had a sweet smooth tone when overdriven.
But overall, I've had the best tone and low noise from RCA's and used old stock Tung Sols....
I seem to like the RCA preamp tubes too. The 12AY7's and 12AU7's have been good to me. I haven't run into ANY RCA 7025's or 12AX7's recently. They're getting rare.
Geno
Tried some Brimars out in my 69 Princeton Reverb and found they lacked some of the bass response that the RCA's and Tung Sols i was using. Those Brimars were NOS too.
I was kinda disappointed because I had heard so much about them on other forums.... oh well.... in the end, it's an individual preference, ain't it? (^_^)
I did buy some NOS Sylvania 6V6GT's after trying out a bunch..... I felt these came the closest to the RCA's and had a sweet smooth tone when overdriven.
But overall, I've had the best tone and low noise from RCA's and used old stock Tung Sols....
I seem to like the RCA preamp tubes too. The 12AY7's and 12AU7's have been good to me. I haven't run into ANY RCA 7025's or 12AX7's recently. They're getting rare.
Geno
i scored a couple of those at a righteous price from the local tube amp guru ... they are beyond compare in a 5E3!
muchxs
Doctor of Teleocity
CBS probably wasn't made by CBS. You need to look at the EIA codes... the usual suspects are 188 (GE), 274 (RCA), 280 (Raytheon), 312 (Sylvania) and 322 (Tung-Sol).
"Grey glass" or "Black glass" is smoked glass. The manufacturer smoked the inside of the envelope probably over an acetylene flame before assembling the tube.
"Black plate" or "Grey plate" refers to how the plates were treated. Black is probably a nitrate gun blue while grey likely is a Parkerized process, also a finish usually seen on firearms. The plate treatment probably doesn't have as much to do with the tube's tone as does the cathode coating. The cathode coating is key but you can't see it. So we take our best guess using other visual clues, plate finish, getter style, features of the dies that were used for the plate stampings. It gets interesting becuase I've seen black plate RCAs produced for the military with '70s date codes... well into the "grey plate" era.
In '50s production 6V6s I like RCA and Sylvania, I lean towards '50s Sylvanias because they're usually less expensive than RCAs from the same era. Good tone, nice price... I'll take 'em!
One of the guitar mags had a 6V6 "shootout" a while back. It wasn't even close to scientific, it was almost entirely subjective. To level the playing field all the tubes should have been tested and matched on the same tester so the "findings" related in some way to actual electronic performance. Running frequency sweeps and distortion analysis might have been illuminating. Our guitar mag guy thought GEs were brittle and bright sounding. There's no way to tell for certain how his GEs held up to any uniform standard.
Raytheon and Tung-Sol: They're less common 6V6s than RCA, Sylvania or GE. Good tubes? Any '50s or '60s tube from a U.S. manufacturer is probably going to be better than anything new as long as the tube isn't entirely spent. The exception might be metal shell power tubes. They're intended for RF applications and may have lower dissipation than GT (glass) types. The drawback to metal shell types is that if you push them past their limits you can't see it when they redplate.
12AX7s: RCA is top of the heap for me followed by Sylvania. I use GEs in less critical applications. That means V1, the first preamp stage is going to be an RCA black plate in my personal amps. That doesn't equate to my preferences in 12AY7s, GE seems to be the best IMHO in 12AY7s.
12AU7s and 12AT7s: Maybe they're "rare" from your perspective, truth be told millions of them were manufactured for military and industrial applications. They're much more common than 12AX7s. I grab Sylvanias off the top of the heap, test them to make sure the sections match if that's necessary for my application and run 'em!
"Grey glass" or "Black glass" is smoked glass. The manufacturer smoked the inside of the envelope probably over an acetylene flame before assembling the tube.
"Black plate" or "Grey plate" refers to how the plates were treated. Black is probably a nitrate gun blue while grey likely is a Parkerized process, also a finish usually seen on firearms. The plate treatment probably doesn't have as much to do with the tube's tone as does the cathode coating. The cathode coating is key but you can't see it. So we take our best guess using other visual clues, plate finish, getter style, features of the dies that were used for the plate stampings. It gets interesting becuase I've seen black plate RCAs produced for the military with '70s date codes... well into the "grey plate" era.
In '50s production 6V6s I like RCA and Sylvania, I lean towards '50s Sylvanias because they're usually less expensive than RCAs from the same era. Good tone, nice price... I'll take 'em!
One of the guitar mags had a 6V6 "shootout" a while back. It wasn't even close to scientific, it was almost entirely subjective. To level the playing field all the tubes should have been tested and matched on the same tester so the "findings" related in some way to actual electronic performance. Running frequency sweeps and distortion analysis might have been illuminating. Our guitar mag guy thought GEs were brittle and bright sounding. There's no way to tell for certain how his GEs held up to any uniform standard.
Raytheon and Tung-Sol: They're less common 6V6s than RCA, Sylvania or GE. Good tubes? Any '50s or '60s tube from a U.S. manufacturer is probably going to be better than anything new as long as the tube isn't entirely spent. The exception might be metal shell power tubes. They're intended for RF applications and may have lower dissipation than GT (glass) types. The drawback to metal shell types is that if you push them past their limits you can't see it when they redplate.
12AX7s: RCA is top of the heap for me followed by Sylvania. I use GEs in less critical applications. That means V1, the first preamp stage is going to be an RCA black plate in my personal amps. That doesn't equate to my preferences in 12AY7s, GE seems to be the best IMHO in 12AY7s.
12AU7s and 12AT7s: Maybe they're "rare" from your perspective, truth be told millions of them were manufactured for military and industrial applications. They're much more common than 12AX7s. I grab Sylvanias off the top of the heap, test them to make sure the sections match if that's necessary for my application and run 'em!
Boogie
Tele-Meister
What can you tell me about these? (No idea if those are the original boxes.) Who made them? Good? Fair? Poor?
muchxs
Doctor of Teleocity
Jeez, 1955 CBS 6V6s! Roll 'em over so I can see the codes. See that little "55" on the base? That matches the May 1955 stamp on the boxes so I'd guess those are the original boxes. 55-2 (can't make out the rest from the pic) which puts them twenty-something weeks into 1955. May, 1955.
You've got 'em, use 'em! Either that or stash 'em until the prices go higher.
You've got 'em, use 'em! Either that or stash 'em until the prices go higher.
Boogie
Tele-Meister
I don't have 'em yet. I'll post the codes when I get 'em. Thanks!
Tremo
Banned
Axer57
Tele-Meister
Sylvania Tubes
I have an old 60's tube amp that came with GE Grey Glass 6v6GT tubes. I first replaced them with JJ Tesla's because they were cheap. Sound was ok unless you cranked the volume, then they got muddy. I replaced these with a NOS set of Sylvania's from the early 60's.. WOW what a difference. My amp can achieve just about any sound I want now. I Run a set of NOS RCA Blackplates in another old Fender amp . They sound good but don't do the higher volumes as well as the Sylvanias. I'm not a tech .but just going by the sound the Sylvania 6v6GT's are way better than anything else I've tried.
I have an old 60's tube amp that came with GE Grey Glass 6v6GT tubes. I first replaced them with JJ Tesla's because they were cheap. Sound was ok unless you cranked the volume, then they got muddy. I replaced these with a NOS set of Sylvania's from the early 60's.. WOW what a difference. My amp can achieve just about any sound I want now. I Run a set of NOS RCA Blackplates in another old Fender amp . They sound good but don't do the higher volumes as well as the Sylvanias. I'm not a tech .but just going by the sound the Sylvania 6v6GT's are way better than anything else I've tried.
I have a few old sets of 6v6 tubes. I have the RCA Blackplates in my Princeton Reverb there now and I love them. I also have a set of Motorolas that sound just as nice... I agree the GE 12ax7 are the best. I also have a hammond 12ax7 tube that came from a old organ and that has a nice sound.
Opaltone
Tele-Holic
I'm always on the lookout for more, genuine tube lore. Do you have references for this process? It sounds rather crude, and somewhat unbelievable. No offense, but - you're not just blowing smoke up our butts, are you?
I'm thinking they had more refined methods of depositing a different material inside the glass - not just soot.
I believe RCA's (link removed)(see panel #9 in the link) was a black carborundum formulation. Carborundum is silicon carbide.
Now, your theory that gray-plate manufacturing was associated with the "Parkerized" process sounds intriguing. Except that process was not patent-applied-for until 1955, and some tube companies (Raytheon and Ken-Rad come to mind) were already creating gray-plate tubes for a couple of years before '55.
Anyway - I'm curious to hear more detail, if you've got it.
By the way - I love old GE (and Ken-Rad) 6V6GT. They do have a brighter character, and tighter lows, which may seem stiff to some. But they've got the clarity I crave; they're just right by me. I find RCA to be too "soft," by comparison, but can understand why someone may choose them to suit their taste.
- Thom
6942
Poster Extraordinaire
I'm enjoying a set of gray-plate GE 6V6 tubes......in my 1969 Webster PA-converted-to-guitar amp.
Nice!
Steve
Nice!
Steve
muchxs
Doctor of Teleocity
I'm always on the lookout for more, genuine tube lore. Do you have references for this process? It sounds rather crude, and somewhat unbelievable. No offense, but - you're not just blowing smoke up our butts, are you?
I'm thinking they had more refined methods of depositing a different material inside the glass - not just soot.
It's carbon black. The quick and dirty way to get it (no pun intended!) is a carburizing (more fuel than oxygen) acetylene flame. Literally, "smoked glass".
S311 refers to the plate material not the plate finish.
"Parkerized" finishes were used on guns during WWII. If the process was PAF for use on tube elements @ 1955 look up the patent. The patent will spell out the process in detail.
Opaltone
Tele-Holic
I looked it up - that's how I found that information. Patent application in Jan. 1955, and patent granted in Aug. 1956. Quite a long time after WWII. Thanks for the provocative insight. It made me do some interesting research.
- Thom
muchxs
Doctor of Teleocity
Patent number please?
Opaltone
Tele-Holic
2,760,886; found via Google Scholar
But with Google Patents, I see references to "Parkerizing" from as far back as 1931.
- T
Boogie
Tele-Meister
Jeez, 1955 CBS 6V6s! Roll 'em over so I can see the codes. See that little "55" on the base? That matches the May 1955 stamp on the boxes so I'd guess those are the original boxes. 55-2 (can't make out the rest from the pic) which puts them twenty-something weeks into 1955. May, 1955.
You've got 'em, use 'em! Either that or stash 'em until the prices go higher.
There is nothing on the back side of them. The number on the side of both of them is 55-26. The circle on the top of the tubes reads 6VG GT BR and the other is CR. Both appear to have small traces of orange paint on the top of the tubes, but I can't make out if there was lettering or symbols there at one time. The underside of the bases both read: "LICENSED ONLY TO EXTENT INDICATED ON CARTON".
crossroader
Tele-Afflicted
I've never had the pleasure of using a pair of the legendary "Black Plates", but I've got a set of a Marconi's in my '68 Deluxe Reverb that sound pretty amazing. Clean tones are warm, clear, and very well balanced. If I plug in a Les Paul and push them, they go into a nice juicy overdrive - nothing brittle or harsh with these tubes.
They are "big bottles", so I couldn't use them in my Mission 5E3 (pretty tight the the Emi Red Fand bell cover). The good news there is that I tried a pair of Hytron 6V6's and they sound great in the 5E3.
I had never heard of them before, but KCA had a pair at a reasonable price and the reviews were good. I'm glad I took the chance, because these do sound very nice.
They are "big bottles", so I couldn't use them in my Mission 5E3 (pretty tight the the Emi Red Fand bell cover). The good news there is that I tried a pair of Hytron 6V6's and they sound great in the 5E3.
I had never heard of them before, but KCA had a pair at a reasonable price and the reviews were good. I'm glad I took the chance, because these do sound very nice.
I scored some old American 6V6 tubes yesterday from an ol guy who goes around collecting tubes(he is going to be such a great resource!!!)...I scored four 6V6 off of him and two 5V4...all for $40! And he even tested them for me while I was there.
But he had these RCA black can type 6V6 that Id never tried...they sounded nice(even though one was dented) in my Champs, but I noticed they burn hot! So hot I could smell them...so I pulled them and decided to do some homework before putting all my faith in these...has anybody used these before? Or more specifically, in a Champ?
BTW I scored a nice RCA blackplate and a Raython too...but I need more of those blackplates!!! That thing sounds flippin HOT!
But he had these RCA black can type 6V6 that Id never tried...they sounded nice(even though one was dented) in my Champs, but I noticed they burn hot! So hot I could smell them...so I pulled them and decided to do some homework before putting all my faith in these...has anybody used these before? Or more specifically, in a Champ?
BTW I scored a nice RCA blackplate and a Raython too...but I need more of those blackplates!!! That thing sounds flippin HOT!
