Can someone please explain to me what just went on here?

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by EsquireOK, Apr 29, 2019.

  1. stratofortress

    stratofortress Tele-Afflicted

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    Change your name and offer him 1200.oo.. with free shipping..:lol:
     
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  2. tone57

    tone57 Tele-Meister

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    " The missing ingredient is Guitar Center's current $1,200 price for brand new ones, and three completed Reverb listings in the two days before the exchanges, that averaged at $1,200 for mint condition used examples. These things informed what I thought I might be able to talk him down to. "

    OK then Esquire that informs that.
    I am NOT in the camp that thinks you were out of line at all.
    In fact the seller must have been having a bad month or just a character flaw.
    The messages took place over an extended period of time.
    It isn't like you were hounding him in any way.
    If he can't answer a few questions, even from "Tire kickers", he really isn't emotionally suited to sales.

    have a great one..
     
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  3. flathd

    flathd Poster Extraordinaire

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    The truth is, G.C. doesn't sell brand new, mint guitars. You're always going to find excessive wear on the 5-8-10-11 frets. (Smoke on the Water).

    And who knows how many 30 day trials it's been through.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2019
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  4. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Friend of Leo's

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    To me, it's just like chatting among "friends." It's no skin off my back to B.S. here. It's not about "worth" in this case; to me there is no certain amount of return on a certain amount of time invested in conversation. If what threw me was simply transaction/not, then there wouldn't be anything to talk about. As I said, I've bought scores of guitars in my life. I've been interested in a countless number, and not bought them for various reasons. The sale didn't happen, and that's fine. I am the one who decided against it! I'm not even set on tracking down another; that's how little I am stuck on this model of guitar.
     
  5. notmyusualuserid

    notmyusualuserid Friend of Leo's

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    For someone who is just shooting the breeze, isn't bothered about the sale, and who didn't want the guitar anyway, you seem reluctant to let this thread go.
     
  6. unixfish

    unixfish Poster Extraordinaire

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    Huge, huge, major red flag for me. In my experience, whenever someone drops being a Christian into a conversation outside of a religious context, it is because they are trying to establish themselves as trustworthy and honest to cover up the fact they are being sleazy and trying to screw you over.

    My experience. Your mileage may vary.
     
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  7. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Friend of Leo's

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    Is there a need to "let it go?" People keep speaking to me, and it's no bother to me.

    Additionally, I didn't say I "didn't want the guitar anyway." I'm just not obsessed with immediately going out and finding another.
     
  8. MilwMark

    MilwMark Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Do you have a link to the GC price?

    Sometimes retailers get permission to go below cost to get rid of inventory that is sitting.

    Fair to mention the pricing, but maybe not to expect it sets a new market.
     
  9. Wrighty

    Wrighty Tele-Afflicted

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    It’s like the old joke. Guy goes into a shop and asks ‘how much is that (enter product) in the window, please?’. ‘That’s £50 Sir’. ‘How much?, the shop down the road sells that exact model for £40’. ‘Well Sir, p**s off and buy it there then’. ‘They don’t have any in stock’. ‘Well Sir, mine are only £30 when I haven’t got any’. OK, not strictly relevant but along similar lines.
     
  10. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Friend of Leo's

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    Yes, that was a huge turnoff. The whole pushy salesman approach in the first place, though, not just the cheap Christian comment. That's why I quit trying to buy from him after two offers.

    https://www.guitarcenter.com/Gibson...MI7L3ovc_44QIVFrvsCh2VwgtbEAQYASABEgJ1IvD_BwE

    There was that combined with three mint used copies (which is what this guy was selling), sold on Reverb in the past two days for an average price of about $1,200.

    It probably doesn't set a new market in the broader sense. But in a localized way, it does. It's something for both buyers and sellers to look at before finalizing a transaction. In a month, once GC sells out, and maybe some more used mint ones sell and inch up the used market average, his price will be closer to the going average of that time.

    And if you look at the long term trend, used prices for these are flattening out at a low point.

    But again, less about price than attitude. I can buy one at GC if I simply want the best price; that much is easy.
     
  11. Vermoulian

    Vermoulian Tele-Meister

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    I think this really gets to the issue here. I can see somebody getting annoyed if they're getting pestered on a firm price (although, I also would never assume that a firm price is really always firm), but I don't think a couple rounds of back-and-forth rises to that level. And there are subtle signs he is already getting weird earlier on.

    It seems clear that he bought the guitar at a higher price point, and now that he's trying to sell it when the market dropped, he's going to lose money on it, or more money than he had anticipated. Nobody likes to be told they're wrong, and everybody is sensitive about their mistakes, so while pointing out comparable prices in the market is an obvious time-honored negotiating tool, it looks to me like he was taking your explanations of why his price was too high as a personal attack---or at least, they were rubbing salt in the "wound" of him having overpaid for the guitar. His extensive rant on GC and playing the Christian card right away were red flags to me, as is the whole concept of "I have to get this out of it." Anybody who says that has just admitted that they don't understand markets and may be irrational in other ways that may negatively affect the transaction.

    So, the signs were there after your first attempt at negotiation, and your second, citing the comparable sales on Reverb, was just fuel to that fire, making him feel even worse about having overpaid for the guitar (even if he paid a perfectly reasonable price at the time he bought it). When people are upset they lash out, and he lashed out at you.

    Reasonable minds can differ over where the border of reasonable negotiation is. I'd call your negotiation fairly aggressive, but I wouldn't find it unreasonable. Those aren't the kinds of communications I would take as red flags with a buyer; I'd consider price negotiations different from endless nitpicky inquiries about physical condition, for instance.
     
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  12. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I def am NOT a Christian musician but the only conclusion I draw when someone drops that into a conversation is that they probably have multiple ,expensive, delays and reverbs ! :confused:
     
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  13. backporchmusic

    backporchmusic Friend of Leo's

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    I wouldn't really want to do business with the seller or the buyer.
     
  14. Dave W

    Dave W Friend of Leo's

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    It's not my rule, b/c it's not a rule at all. It's an understanding of what certain words mean and what the absence of those words mean.

    From Reverb: To get started, just click the "Make An Offer" button on the listing you're interested in. If this button is not available. this means that the seller of that item has opted out of accepting offers on their listing:

    Adults should understand that without having to have it spelled out.



    Exactly. Whether the asking price is negotiable or not, what it sells for is the market value. The OP doesn't understand this. He can decide the maximum he wants to pay, but that doesn't make it "fair market value" as he claims.
     
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  15. MilwMark

    MilwMark Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    I understand what works. You can of course do as you please.
     
  16. Dave W

    Dave W Friend of Leo's

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    So can you, but if you try to negotiate with me on Reverb when I don't include a Make Offer button, I'll never sell to you, even if you come back with an offer above my asking price.
     
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  17. MilwMark

    MilwMark Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Deal.
     
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  18. Recce

    Recce Friend of Leo's

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    But someone else might and if the item has been there a long time they might welcome an offer. You don’t know if you don’t ask. But, I have also passed on items without a make an offer block.
     
  19. Stringbanger

    Stringbanger Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Confucius say:

    Man selling guitar for price.
    Okay to ask man to lower price (without insulting man).

    Man says, “Can’t change price.”

    Pay man asking price, or look elsewhere.
     
  20. kelnet

    kelnet Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I like your idea, but it made me think of this idea of "I can't lower my price." Well, the price can always be lowered. When I was selling cars, our sales manager would often sell a car just to get it off the lot, even if he sold it at a massive loss. The same can be true of guitars.

    It's more a case of being willing to go lower if you have to, in order to sell the guitar. If I set a firm price, it just means that I don't want to go lower. I could go lower, but I just don't need to sell the guitar that badly. On the other hand, we needed to get rid of some furniture recently, and we couldn't get our very low asking price so we simply gave it away. We needed it gone.

    For guitar sellers, the choice is often between taking the offer or keeping the guitar. But I don't ever accept the argument that he can't go lower. No, it's just that the seller won't go lower.
     
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