Can someone please explain to me what just went on here?

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by EsquireOK, Apr 29, 2019.

  1. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Friend of Leo's

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    Thank you for the responses. I am glad to read all of them, as I really had no idea what I might be doing to piss him off SO MUCH. Though I understand the viewpoints within them, I find some of the statements puzzling, and some downright incorrect.

    Some people implied or stated that I didn't make an offer. That isn't true, by my understanding. I'm sitting here with money ready to go the moment there's an agreement.

    To summarize:

    1. I asked one question about the item.

    2. I made an offer of $1,200 shipped a week later. The offer was 17 percent below item price + shipping. It has been discussed here recently that this is a fairly standard starting point for a first offer. I never expected him to take it, but for it to start the usual ping-pong of price discussion.

    3. He declined...with an, IMO, disgusting pitch.

    4. I made a second offer of his asking price for the item, sans shipping, agreeing that I liked his item better than most out there (and also understanding that the GC price of $1,200 would end up being about $1,300 after tax), and liking buying from a Reverb guy rather than GC. This is about 7 percent below his asking price plus shipping.

    5. He declined again...and more and more.

    6. I passed, with an explanation of why (which is something I generally do to be polite when exiting a discussion).

    7. He got extremely sarcastic and snippy...and this confused me, because I had been going out of my way to be polite to a guy who, IMO, was acting gross. That's just what I generally do when dealing with people in business transactions, or potential ones.

    Some people have said I was kicking tires. This does not compute with me, because I actually offered more than fair market value for his guitar – because I thought it was above average in the looks department, and I like patronizing the little guy when I can. At no point did I pick apart his item's quality or condition in an attempt to get a lower price. I said I would pay MORE than it's worth on the mint used market because your item looks BETTER to me.

    To me, this is just what ya do when you're buying something...and what you expect when you're selling something, if you don't say "firm." You talk to the guy/gal first. You get a feel for him/her, you float some pricing discussions around. This seller does not say "firm" in his listing (though maybe this experience has caused him to add it). To me, the Make Offer button is just a robotic way to do what everyone is gonna do anyhow. I prefer to have a more human connection when buying.

    The, "If he didn't include 'Make Offer,' it's rude/annoying to send a manually written offer" attitude, I must disagree with. That's what the word "firm" is for. I always correspond with buyers before bidding/buying/offering, whether they have an offer button or not. They are almost always willing to discuss shifts in price, either a little or a lot. And I put my money where my mouth is. I never get in to extensive talks about an item if I'm not ready and willing to pounce the second a price is agreed on.

    I have certainly been annoyed by (but never snippy/angry with) Craig's List and E-Bay "buyers" sending crazily low-ball offers when FIRM was clearly stated in my posting. But if you don't say firm, then you are, de facto, asking for offers. Personally, even if I said firm, I'd consider offers that weren't lower than 20 percent off asking price – just not idiotic offers.


    Telling him what completed items in the past few days had sold for was not intended as needling. I simply felt I owned him some form of conversational explanation, other than, "Thanks but no thanks," for stepping back from the talks, after we had exchanged a few messages. He stated he would not sell it for less than it was worth. I pointed out that the way I looked at "worth" (average market value in recent days), he would not actually be selling for less than it was worth. Not needling or a dig – just an explanation of why I was backing out from my point of view.

    The explanation I gave for backing out was part of it, but it wasn't enough to make me pass over the guitar. I would have paid what he wanted in the end...but I just got a bad feeling about the guy. The reason was his vibe. His style of communication was aggressive and a bit too "used car salesman" for me...and I was particularly grossed out by his use of "Christian" to attempt to paint himself in a certain light. I took it in stride at first, but it didn't get any better. I wasn't going to tell him something personal like that, so I just said the thing about how recently completed sales had caused me to back off for a bit, and that his statement about $1,350 shipped being less than what it is was worth was not correct by my methods of determining value.


    One person said he or she couldn't believe I typed all that. I used copy and paste, and it took me maybe 10 minutes, plus some touch ups. Not too much time spent to have a discussion among hobbyists who would have worthwhile opinions on the matter, IMO.

    Thanks for the input. I knew there would be a range, and appreciate you taking the time, whether I agree with your characterization of me or not.
     
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  2. RadioFM74

    RadioFM74 Tele-Afflicted

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    I agree with @2 Headed Goat . And I’ve had (far) worse answers for doing more or less what you did there ;D His transition from “super-helpful” to “pissed off” was a little abrupt, I’ll give you that.

    PS: I don’t imply that YOU were a “tyre kicker”. Just that you were one among possibly many asking, arguing, commenting, etc… and at one point he’s had enough.
     
    2 Headed Goat likes this.
  3. boredguy6060

    boredguy6060 Friend of Leo's

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    I wouldn’t sweat it
    People often pay too much for an item. They try and pass that mistake on to someone else.
    Then you tell them how much they over paid for the item and try to get them to lose money to make you happy.
    Your offer pissed him off, more for the reminder that he paid too much than anything else.
    Let it go, find another one, move on.
     
  4. Bones

    Bones Telefied Ad Free Member

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    You seem very high maintenance to me, as a seller, I would fully expect you to nit pick the guitar for a few days and then demand a refund because it wasn't up to you hopes and dreams. No thanks. The seller did the right thing.
     
  5. 24 track

    24 track Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    dont over think it, all he had to say was no, but the transaction is what it is , I personally would not buy from him . but thats just me , that and i never buy a guitar sight unseen , no matter what its creds are and if you cant ask questions about it with out him going psycotic , then your money is safer in your pocket.JMHO
     
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  6. MrCairo46

    MrCairo46 Friend of Leo's

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    I agree.
    Esquire OK, I’m sorry but you sound like an 11 yo trying to negotiate with a parent who said “No”
    “No” still means “No” to many people and is not an “invitation to wear me down maybe”
    Move on.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
  7. kafka

    kafka Tele-Afflicted

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    TL;DR

    Here's how it works. There are other fish in the sea. Nobody needs this guitar, or has to sell to that buyer. If the deal isn't easy, it's not worth it. Money for guitar, that's it. Everything else is a waste of time.
     
  8. Jwalker99

    Jwalker99 TDPRI Member

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    This is a fascinating thread about online buying and personal perspective.
    The range of responses from:
    "Buyer's hurt feelings " to
    "buyer dodged a bullet" to
    "buyer is a pain in the neck




    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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  9. Ricky D.

    Ricky D. Poster Extraordinaire

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    Nothing to see here.

    You gave him more reasons to say yes after he said no, that's ok in my view. He gave you a very firm no, and that's ok, too.

    Just let go and walk away, he's just one of the 8 billion people in the world you won't be doing business with.
     
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  10. Urshurak776

    Urshurak776 Tele-Holic

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    It’s like this with any topic (like politics.). Everyone has a different perspective and they run the full range. That’s what makes us different.

    My perspective on this is that the seller overpaid for the guitar and the buyer kind of reminded him of that. Then the seller tried to sway him from GC (and implied he was a Christian and he would never try to sway his decision.....which he did.). When the comparison got made to mint condition value, it further reminded him he overpaid, thus making him madder. The result was the email you received.
     
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  11. Jwalker99

    Jwalker99 TDPRI Member

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    Any item for sale is worth the buyer is willing to pay. The price the seller would like to receive is meaningless.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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  12. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Tele-Afflicted

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    Way, way, way too many words on both sides. Anytime either a buyer or seller has to explain their position on price in more than one sentence, their integrity and negotiation motivations are automatically suspect to me. Period.

    But that's just me. I purposely avoid buying and selling much gear privately, because absolutely none of this crap is worth it to me to endure to get "the best deal eva".
     
  13. Mr Scallywag

    Mr Scallywag Tele-Holic

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    I can't believe people are calling Esquire out on this. He wasn't lowballing or being disrespectful, just trying to get an honest price. Gave it a couple of shots, it's not a small amount of money after all, then politely walked away. The seller on the other hand...
     
  14. brbadg

    brbadg Tele-Afflicted

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    This is starting to sound like you are all butt sore that you didn't get the guitar.
     
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  15. Flat6Driver

    Flat6Driver Friend of Leo's

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    No, I disagree, after reading it, it became annoying and I don't sell much cause I hate it probably would have walked at that point.

    Yes, the 7 point essay in post #21 clearly makes that point.
     
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  16. tery

    tery Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Buy the one at Guitar Center … its a better deal .
     
  17. Chud

    Chud Poster Extraordinaire

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    Mountains and molehills and tempests in teacups
    Ebay and reverb and craigslist and all those such
    Brown paper packages tied up with strings
    These are a few of my favorite things
    :twisted::twisted::lol::lol::D:D

    You actually seem pretty well suited for each other given both of your proclivities toward banter and verbosity. Lol. Under other circumstances you might have walked away with a new best buddy. :lol::lol::lol:
     
  18. JDB2

    JDB2 Tele-Meister

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    Sometimes I have accidentally offended sellers by telling them why I thought their price was too high. I don't do that any more.

    That seems mean to me.
     
  19. Whatizitman

    Whatizitman Tele-Afflicted

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    If something is truly too high, it's a red flag. Don't engage crazy.

    OTOH, every price is too high to a used instrument buyer.

    But it's no excuse. It's generally expected to make an offer. It's not expected for a prospective buyer to argue why they should be paying less. That's ego driven, period.
     
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  20. Mr Scallywag

    Mr Scallywag Tele-Holic

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    So if you walk into a shop you don't engage in a conversation when you know by doing so you could get a better price? Do you just nod your head at the item, silently pay, then walk out, no questions asked? You've never bartered? In real life that was a two minute conversation. Why should that change because it's the internet? The same rules apply. What Esquire did was perfectly normal.

    And Esquire annoys you because the whole situation annoys you. You hate it. That's about your intolerance, not his conduct.
     
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