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"Cambria" prototype - ergonomic multiscale

Discussion in 'Tele Home Depot' started by Deed_Poll, Jul 8, 2016.

  1. Deed_Poll

    Deed_Poll Tele-Meister

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    Hi guys!

    I got a bunch of craft foam in the post today, so I thought do a straightforward ergonomics study with the current version of this design. I will hack into it and update it, incrementally improving it over time.

    It's a multiscale 7 string, 680mm (26-3/4") on the bass side and 648mm (25-1/2") on the treble side, with 24 frets. The access up the neck is such that I could put some more frets between the pickups, and it would be perfectly playable, but then it's nice to dig in under the strings so I probably won't! Might be good for tappers / shredders / technical players with a really light touch though, and I do want to try it.

    Obviously it doesn't have strings, but I did model the string plane and marked it to get an idea of where the frets will be.

    First impressions are pretty good! I still need to do the neck profile, for now it's 2" thick like the body so it neck dives a bit, and I need to sculpt contours in the back to inform the 3D model. Many more iterations to come!

    The posture and playing position is really nice. It sits just inside the playing arm a bit like an acoustic, so even with the neck dive it's easy to point it where you want it. It works great playing in standard position, and I can see it being very easy to shred up the neck in classical position.

    Anyway here it is! Let me know what you think as always, I'm looking for ideas as to woods / finishes / construction, basically everything!

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    Cheers!
     
  2. ebb soul

    ebb soul Poster Extraordinaire

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    That is quite cool, you're quite the artistic designer.
    It also could double as a galactic storm troopers weapon.
    Those raised sides, or sunken neck plane, depending on point of view, is an idea on my drafting table for a headless bass.
    (Hope that's ok, it was drawn up three yrs ago)
    I assume your design to be headless?
    Now, if you could make this out of carbon fiber.....you could keep the foam inside!
    I don't think I could ever learn the fanned fret design.
    But that would not discourage me from implementing it.
    I haven't the brain to figure that math out, I'd have to borrow the layout from previous designs.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2016
  3. callasabra

    callasabra Tele-Afflicted

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    Through-body laminated neck of walnut and locust, with locust wings. Oil finish. Ghost bridge with piezo saddles, rhino bone nut. Marble inlays and knobs. Fernandez sustainer neck pup and SD JB bridge pup. Blend knob for piezos. Stereo output for pup and piezo signals. Screw less wood control covers, ebony pup surrounds and engraved signature on back.

    Oh, and can I buy it for $400?

    I am definitely following this build!
     
  4. src9000

    src9000 Poster Extraordinaire

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    Good looking design. Great looking model.
    Keep us posted.
     
  5. ebb soul

    ebb soul Poster Extraordinaire

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    I think it would demand the most cutting edge hardware going, 2 tech bridge, , or I guess it's headless, so Steinberger, alumitone pickups, or lightoptic sensor..
    I could see the exotic wood suggestions, but in real world application it would balance best as carbon fiber and phenolic fretboard.
    RKS type controls, more or less. Sideways out of raised lower (or upper) wing. maybe digital 'menu wheels', and/or then there's touch sensor controls, as Ovation did on an parlor acoustic in the nineties.
    (A horribly recieved design to 'out there' for its day) could raise volume by sweeping hand across sensor pads, etc..
    This screams high tech, and, therefor, high end.
    Such a shame to take this design and force it back to the last century for cost or tradition.
    Just. Freaking. Killer. Mang.
     
  6. Deed_Poll

    Deed_Poll Tele-Meister

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    Cheers guys!

    Callasabra, I was thinking of using a Bastogne walnut gun stock blank for the bass horn section, perhaps mated to a baked maple body and neck, probably with a black satin finish to the body and leaving the neck without a finish, with either an ebony or black phenolic fretboard. It might sound strange just to have that horn in walnut and the rest black, but the symmetry of the treble horn shape and the inside edge of the bass side might make the thing work.

    Currently my thinking is to go for a traditional bridge but something cool, like a custom machined Bigsby Sorkin style, only poking out from the top with the height adjust from the back somehow

    [​IMG]

    Then to continue the rifle stock theme, perhaps some Waverly slotted peghead tuners, going through slots behind the bridge and adjusted from the back, keeping all the ornamentation in the nooks and crannies like an expensive suit!

    The ball ends could be mounted from the nut and the guitar would string up traditionally but backwards.
     
  7. Deed_Poll

    Deed_Poll Tele-Meister

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    Ebb soul, the fanned fret principle is really simple when you get your head around it. Take any two scale lengths, pit them side by side and join up the dots! The notes don't care whether you do all the fan at the nut or at the bridge, or anywhere in between. And as long as you get the bass string and treble string frets spaced properly, all the others will sort themselves out!

    Thanks for all the suggestions! Carbon fibre would be really cool with the modern design, likewise with alumitone pickups which do come wide enough for even 8 string guitars I think. But I think I need to put my CNC to work, it's had too many days off! I might try a totally synthetic one out of the top grade beige modelling foam, which is very dense and strong. It's known as "chemical wood" and I think it will machine, sand and take finish beautifully. It's also very rigid and dimensionally stable, probably similar in density to maple or rosewood.

    I'm feeling it out as a kind of vintage rifle feel, with figured walnut, lots of black and little fancypants details in places you wouldn't think to look like the strap pins, side markers and knobs.

    As far as controls, to hold it feels like there should be a knob on the treble horn to me. Maybe a PRS style recessed toggle switch as well, I'll work something out with blu tac!

    Cheers
     
  8. ebb soul

    ebb soul Poster Extraordinaire

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    Yeah, gonna need CNC. Maybe a water jet. Cut your hardware. If it is headless.
    I think you should go for a pat pend, asap.
    Dead serious.
    I'd make the leg contour a lil more generous toward the stern. I'd actually shape it like a BC Rich Mockingbird, there...but I digress.
     
  9. wadeeinkauf

    wadeeinkauf Tele-Holic

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    First I have no experience with a 7 string guitar....or the string sets used on one which could nullify my below observations.

    Not sure I understand your bridge idea...Looking forward to seeing that.

    If you have experience with this particular multiscale (25.5-26.75) and are comfortable with it ...great.
    I use 10's for my strings. On the first multiscales I built I used a 25-27 spread with 6 strings. At this scale this gave me a scale of 25.79 inches on my G string. With 10s this was too much tension for a tele style nut/bridge setup on the G and D string for me. It was very hard to press the G down on the first fret. After a lot of experimenting I am very happy with 24.75-26.25 scales with the perpendicular on the 11th fret. This gives me a 1.5 inch spread and a G string scale of 25.34. And good tension on my 10 gauge strings (e).
    Really looking forward to following you on this project.
    Wade
    7.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2016
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  10. Deed_Poll

    Deed_Poll Tele-Meister

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    That looks great! Thanks for the tips. I love that you've used a lefty Tele bridge, looks like it was made to measure :)
     
  11. Ripthorn

    Ripthorn Friend of Leo's

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    While the aesthetic is not my thing, I appreciate the outside the box thinking. I did a prototype last year that was a headless multiscale and I designed all the hardware and machined it all. It was a ton of work, but lots of fun. In the end, there was relatively little absolute benefit, but I treated that guitar the way a concept car is treated, more of an exercise to see what can be done, but not something to duplicate.

    I wouldn't put frets between pickups because that implies that the pickups would be set so low that you would lose a lot of the tone due to having the strings out in the nether reaches of the magnetic field. Output is likely to be weak, even with active pickups. Now, if you were to do something like embed little pickups in the fretboard, or use the frets as elements in a pickup, that may work.

    Regardless, I am all for challenging the accepted norms and seeing what else can be done. As a scientist, it's all about exploration and experimentation.
     
  12. ebb soul

    ebb soul Poster Extraordinaire

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    Again if it were lightoptic, I would not matter about that fret issue as far as I can see, er..hear..in any case I'd rather be able to drop lower than E than go above 24 frets, that's jes shrilly shrediness.
    A concept car is but post production imput, and, frankly, it would be a huge labor of love to build but one of these, as each one becomes streamlined more efficiently than only one can.
    Just one and that's it? That's one expensive , or labour intensive, axe.
    This design should be a program, once programmed, relatively easy to produce.
     
  13. Jack S

    Jack S Friend of Leo's

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    That would make a heck of a weapon! Make it from Valarian Steel.
     
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  14. Davecam48

    Davecam48 Friend of Leo's Ad Free Member

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    Like the originality overall, and especially love the looooong neck tenon, great engineering and design. To my eye it needs a headstock of some type to allow the eye to recognise it as a guitar and not a futuristic ray gun. Haven't played a multi-scale myself, but built a -3degree 25.5" scale on my 2015 GSM challenge build.........which seems comfortable to play. Great project D.P.

    DC
     
  15. callasabra

    callasabra Tele-Afflicted

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    I generally like headstocks, too. But the OPs design is outside the box the it works, and it is his design.

    Bigsby! Didn't see that coming but gotta be better than the floyd rose on my 7.

    Gotta go with active pups on a 7. I would love to try the Fernandez pups in mine but cant put more money in a guitar I rarely anymore.
    I like the vintage rifle idea, and that opens up a lot of room for creativity.

    I do see string tension as a possible area for trouble. My 7 isn't a multiscale and it is a beast to get setup and intonated.

    Another common thing for 7 and 8 strings players to do, IME, is to use heavier gauge strings and down tune. My 7 is down a whole step but down 2 was common.

    This is so much more exciting than the flying v I'm repairing.
     
  16. smile-4-me

    smile-4-me Tele-Meister

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    Deed_Poll. Can I have some more detail on the dynasonic tele from the pic u posted?
     
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