1stpitch
Tele-Afflicted
My current teacher wants me to learn the CAGED system. I don't want to. It seems to me more of a gimmick or crutch or a way around learning the guitar the "right" way. So is he right? Do I need to learn it?
CAGED system - what are the pros and cons?
- Thread starter 1stpitch
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links like Ebay, Amazon, and others.
SRHmusic
Friend of Leo's
It's a useful and relatively quick way to learn a set of five useful positions, each related to a basic chord shape. (It can limit one thinking a bit to the specific boxes, but no knowledge is harmful.)
Looking back I'd say it's more important to learn the triads and how they connect (major, minor, and one diminished in each major scale). Then when playing these or in a CAGED position pay attention to what scale degree you're playing. This is huge, and I think not emphasized enough.
Looking back I'd say it's more important to learn the triads and how they connect (major, minor, and one diminished in each major scale). Then when playing these or in a CAGED position pay attention to what scale degree you're playing. This is huge, and I think not emphasized enough.
Last edited:
basher
Friend of Leo's
CAGED is an excellent approach to learning your way around the fretboard. Pretty much everybody uses some version of it, whether they call it that or not. Learning it isn't going to make it impossible to learn other approaches.
loopfinding
Poster Extraordinaire
it's not a crutch, it's the roadmap. the layout of the guitar was designed with the idea of moving harmonically in a certain way...otherwise it would just be like a symmetrical grid tuned in all major 3rds. your hand needs a way to easily relay the shapes to your brain - your hand manages the micro on autopilot, and your brain takes care of the macro (melodic or harmonic decisions).
but i like the 3 notes per string (3nps) positions (7 of them). i find them easier to connect positions and much easier to pick, especially with arpeggios. ask him about that one and see which system you like better.
but i like the 3 notes per string (3nps) positions (7 of them). i find them easier to connect positions and much easier to pick, especially with arpeggios. ask him about that one and see which system you like better.
Marc Morfei
Poster Extraordinaire
I learned it before I even knew it was a thing. It's a handy way to learn how notes on the fretboard relate to each other. There are "C" chords, and notes that complement a "C" chord, all over the place. Same for every key. It's a good companion to learning scales. A different way to group those same notes.
CAGED is a simple, logically-consistent way to approach learning the scales and modes. The Pros far outweigh the Cons in my opinion. The only (minor) cons that come to mind are: 1) learning the fretboard through CAGED can instill a predominance of "box" or "position" playing. This problem can be addressed by learning to play the scales and modes on each string, individually, up and down the neck. That gives you the tools to move between "boxes" effortlessly during your playing; and 2) it provides a bit of a formalistic, "mathematical" approach to learning scales that emphasizes shapes over sounds. This can be overcome by simply always remembering to listen carefully to what you're playing. Music is about sound, not geometry.
All of that being said, I highly recommend CAGED. One of the qualities I like most about it is that the approach demands equal time and effort in the 1, 3, and 5 positions as it does in the "A" and "E" position. It's no panacea, but it's a great method for approaching what can seem at first to be a daunting task.
One final piece of advice - if you do start practicing your scales and modes using the CAGED system, try to always focus on where the 1, the 3, the 5, and the 7 are in the position that you're practicing. I always practice the scale and the arpeggios for a given position in the same practice session. You want to instantly recognize where your shell notes are.
All of that being said, I highly recommend CAGED. One of the qualities I like most about it is that the approach demands equal time and effort in the 1, 3, and 5 positions as it does in the "A" and "E" position. It's no panacea, but it's a great method for approaching what can seem at first to be a daunting task.
One final piece of advice - if you do start practicing your scales and modes using the CAGED system, try to always focus on where the 1, the 3, the 5, and the 7 are in the position that you're practicing. I always practice the scale and the arpeggios for a given position in the same practice session. You want to instantly recognize where your shell notes are.
Although CAGED may be a good excercise into unlocking the fretboard, when you're just starting..
I totally support learning intervals and understanding triads. It's more useful to know how you can quickly build and alter chords, shapes will form pretty much alone.
I recently switched tunings and I could immediately throw all cord shapes out of the window, but I could build new ones quickly because of the knowledge of intervals.
Marc Morfei
Poster Extraordinaire
Also, I wish I had learned about CAGED much sooner. I learned it by accident, piecing it together bit by bit on my own, before I discovered it was an actual system. As a result, I was one of the many mediocre players stuck in the "pentatonic rut," because that's all I really had. Even though I came to realize there are other ways to find notes and phrases, I still fall back on long-held habits and struggle to escape that pentatonic prison. If I had learned CAGED (and some other stuff) earlier, I would have had a broader understanding of the possibilities.
darkwaters
Friend of Leo's
Knowledge is power.
vgallagher
Tele-Holic
Triads for me, once I had these down, I went from being a "lick" player to a music player. I tried the scales and caged way, but it just never took, everything I played sounded the same. Everyone learns differently.
There are cons??
OmegaWoods
Tele-Afflicted
If all you learn about CAGED is the chord shapes, there’s more to see.
CAGED links all the roots (tonics), scales and chords together in an understandable, repeatable way. I’m currently working back through the system to deepen my understanding of the fretboard. Play the open C, then play the pentatonic scale (from C to C of course) using MAJOR pentatonic scale position 3 (which I’ve named “vacation home”), then play the A-shape C and position 4, from C to C (bell curve) and so on up the neck. Then I do the relative minors (Am open shape, minor pentatonic from A to A, etc.)
I’m using Eric Haugen’s TrueFire course as the basis for this study and it’s bringing together every piece of fretboard knowledge that have been residing in separate boxes in my head. Now I see the scale tonics, chord tones, intervals and scales all together in a way that I’ve never done before.
Don’t write off CAGED as a gimmick. It’s an incredibly powerful framework for cementing everything together (finally). I will say that a lot of people (teachers included) think they understand CAGED without really getting to the meat of the framework.
CAGED links all the roots (tonics), scales and chords together in an understandable, repeatable way. I’m currently working back through the system to deepen my understanding of the fretboard. Play the open C, then play the pentatonic scale (from C to C of course) using MAJOR pentatonic scale position 3 (which I’ve named “vacation home”), then play the A-shape C and position 4, from C to C (bell curve) and so on up the neck. Then I do the relative minors (Am open shape, minor pentatonic from A to A, etc.)
I’m using Eric Haugen’s TrueFire course as the basis for this study and it’s bringing together every piece of fretboard knowledge that have been residing in separate boxes in my head. Now I see the scale tonics, chord tones, intervals and scales all together in a way that I’ve never done before.
Don’t write off CAGED as a gimmick. It’s an incredibly powerful framework for cementing everything together (finally). I will say that a lot of people (teachers included) think they understand CAGED without really getting to the meat of the framework.
My uncle taught me the caged system 30 years ago without even knowing what it was. I'm sure it's not the only way, but it has been invaluable for me.
rand z
Poster Extraordinaire
I believe that everything you can learn about the guitar... will improve your playing.
It may not be obvious; it's a cumulative thing.
(p.s. It also applies to "Life.")
imo.
It may not be obvious; it's a cumulative thing.
(p.s. It also applies to "Life.")
imo.
Last edited:
rsclosson
Friend of Leo's
After going through the first 12 pages of the Mel Bay Rhythm Chord system, I was using the caged system before I knew what it was. My lead playing changed dramatically and for the good. Previously I was locked in to one pentatonic scale. The caged system basically fixed all that. I still think in the characteristics of each position as having its own quality or "personality"
One example is when I tried to solo along with the middle part of The Allman Brothers' Blue Skies, I couldn't get a proper sound until I used the G form. Later on, I discovered that I was using the pentatonic major form instead of the pentatonic minor. I guess I learned the execution first and the theory behind it later on.
One example is when I tried to solo along with the middle part of The Allman Brothers' Blue Skies, I couldn't get a proper sound until I used the G form. Later on, I discovered that I was using the pentatonic major form instead of the pentatonic minor. I guess I learned the execution first and the theory behind it later on.
cousinpaul
Poster Extraordinaire
You'll spend a lot of time re-inventing the wheel if you dismiss it. You might ask your teacher to suggest a song to drive home each lesson and show how it might be applied. If you're learning to improvise, you'll find each of the five shapes offers it's own opportunities.
Cosmic Cowboy
Tele-Afflicted
Caged is just a simple way to know where your triads are all over the neck. If you don't know your triads...this is an easy way to learn them.
I don't really get the question. Clearly you are taking lessons to learn to play. Knowing where your chords are around the neck is learning to play. What is a possible alternative? Not knowing where your triads are? Not knowing how to play?
I don't really get the question. Clearly you are taking lessons to learn to play. Knowing where your chords are around the neck is learning to play. What is a possible alternative? Not knowing where your triads are? Not knowing how to play?
Jazzcaster21
Tele-Holic
I knew what CAGED was a long time after I had already learned different bar chord shapes and various non-bar movable chord shapes. I teach it to students now however as a way to help them see the various repeating shapes and patterns that are inherent to the guitar once you move out of using the open strings.
The only con I can see is that it doesn't always translate well to chords once you get past the basic major shapes that it's named after. Some minor and dominant chords don't fit well (if at all) in the overall scheme of the system (I am mainly referring to both the C and G shapes) and as a result you won't be using them as much. Still, you can see key chord tones within a given "shape" and how to break it down to either a 3 or 4 note voicing.
However, for country guitar playing.....CAGED is essential because ALL the licks you play are based off of some sort of CAGED shape. At least in my experience.
The only con I can see is that it doesn't always translate well to chords once you get past the basic major shapes that it's named after. Some minor and dominant chords don't fit well (if at all) in the overall scheme of the system (I am mainly referring to both the C and G shapes) and as a result you won't be using them as much. Still, you can see key chord tones within a given "shape" and how to break it down to either a 3 or 4 note voicing.
However, for country guitar playing.....CAGED is essential because ALL the licks you play are based off of some sort of CAGED shape. At least in my experience.
The big idea is this... you should be able to play in any key, in any position on the neck.
Personally I don't really like the term CAGED, because to me, thinking of a, "C shaped F," is a bit of a stupid concept in that it is not at all musical, and very guitaristic (If that's a word). IE- If you told a pianist that you were going to play a C shaped F, they'd have no idea what you're talking about, yet we know you mean an F in 5th position.
That being said, if you call it CAGED, or if you call it From 1, 2, 3, 4, 5... we are essentially talking about the same thing.
Without a systematic way to organize the fretboard, you just plain don't know your instrument.
Personally I don't really like the term CAGED, because to me, thinking of a, "C shaped F," is a bit of a stupid concept in that it is not at all musical, and very guitaristic (If that's a word). IE- If you told a pianist that you were going to play a C shaped F, they'd have no idea what you're talking about, yet we know you mean an F in 5th position.
That being said, if you call it CAGED, or if you call it From 1, 2, 3, 4, 5... we are essentially talking about the same thing.
Without a systematic way to organize the fretboard, you just plain don't know your instrument.
Like many of the other (older) posters here, I learned it/figured it out before I knew what it was called. 'Noticed' it is proibably a better description. In fact, I don't think it had a name yet when I was learning it (late 70s). The thing that's important to understand is that it exists on a standard tuned guitar whether you like it or not or whether you actively recognize that you're employing it.
I say learn it.
I say learn it.
Last edited:
