BUZZ when TOUCHING the strings...?

[MatsEriksson]

Finally pictures. Good to see.

BTW, when is any thread too long? When people that haven't got the patience to read it through at all, and starts chiming in with already proposed solutions?

 

[MatsEriksson]

Unfortunately, there's a very good likelihood we won't be rehearsing again until January... so this one might have to go on the back burner

And you have no keys for the rehearsal space yourself so you can go down and check it out alone without interferring with your band mates time? Or is it too far away to pursue such a small task? Rain, sleet and snow may be keeping you from bicycling or walking? Hackettstown can't be that big can it?

You actually DID find something, and fixed it, and the ground wire must pass through and a tin blob on the shield of every pot on its way out to the ground, including the shielding copper tape. But the reading on the meter has just changed a bit, not fully to either extremes. It should read 0 or 100. Not 86.7 or 7 or something in between. You may have stray strands from ground wire - or else - that connects to something when the control plate is put back on.

So you have had to change strings now, or you did it without it? (it can be done you know).

 

[MatsEriksson]

Well, I'm at a loss.

I checked the jack: it is wired correctly.

I removed the bridge, the ground seemed intact, I sanded the bottom to insure good contact, and put it back on.

I insured none of the grounds are touching the shielded cavity walls. I even taped them to be sure.

I'm still getting a reading on the meter, so something is still wrong.

I checked the ground solder points: they look fine. I know solder can be deceiving, so I guess my next step... the only other thing I would know to do is to re-solder the grounds, I guess?


WAIT. I don't think the tone pot is grounded?

Jack ground (sleeve) > back of tone pot > tone cap > tone pot lug > NOWHERE. I am right? Do I just need to ground the tone pot? There is a solder drop on the back of the tone pot where it looks like a ground wire WAS? Something was soldered there, and isn't now....

Also, the shielding tape in the cavity doesn't appear to be grounded to anything either...

Lemme see if I can get a decent picture... (just for the tone pot connections)

Cap is back of pot to outer lug
Wire is middle lug tone pot to output lug vol pot
The pot itself does not appear to be grounded

Very well done. You've done the right search... but, I can't see if this is made right or not, I can't tell by the pic. There are many ways to connect/wire a tone pot on Telecasters. The stock regular one is like this:

The other alternatives can be out there, but you still need ground:

 

[MatsEriksson]

https://www.fralinpickups.com/2020/09/01/6-powerful-ways-to-wire-up-a-tone-pot/

there are 6 ways to wire a tone pot. Maybe even more. Pick and choose from the above link.

Now, no matter that you don't hear it at home, and just hear it at rehearsal space, you must fix the reading of the multimeter, wherever your residence. It's inside the guitar. Fix that in the guitar first, like it should not read 8.7 on the meter or 7 as it is now. Get rid of that thing first, inside the guitar.

https://www.fralinpickups.com/2018/11/12/understanding-guitar-grounding/

 

[ruger9]

No, I don't have keys for the rehearsal space. It's very frustrating that this only happens THERE, and not at home... but yes I did find 2 things that were not properly grounded (the tone pot and the copper shielding tape), and grounded them. The back of the control cavity cover also has shielding tape, and it does make contact with the shielding tape in the cavity. All the writing now looks correct- it matches what I find with internet searches.

SO... unless there is a tiny strand that I can't see with my 51 year old eyes (time for me to get some readers), OR one of the solder "blobs" is a cold joint, I'm at a loss.

Yes, I removed the strings to get the bridge off. No point in totally slacking them, because I had to remove the saddles to get the bridge mounting screws. Actually FASTER just to change strings.

 

[ruger9]

A summary of symptoms/findings would help.

Well, I did give a summary of results, just a few posts above. But here's a quick summary of what was (still is?) going on.

Only at my rehearsal space, instead of this guitar quieting down when I touch the strings (which is the norm), it gets NOISIER when I touch the strings.
The outlet at the rehearsal space tests fine. My other guitar (and my other guitarist's 2 guitars, thru my rig) does not exhibit the same issue.

The main suggestions have been:
-something is not grounded in the guitar
-the bridge may not be grounded
-there may be a small stray wire somewhere in the control cavity touching ground
-the jack may be wired backwards

Several posts above, I ran through all these scenarios yesterday, and fixed them where needed.

I won't be back at the rehearsal space until January, most likely.

The fact that it is only THIS guitar obviously means THIS guitar has/had a problem (it certainly did).
The fact that I cannot replicate it at home may be because of the "antenna" theory: the rehearsal space has alot going on: besides a PA, everyone has in-ears all but one of us is hardwired: only the singer uses a wireless for her in-ears), there are also lights, as well as some kind of a light that reacts to the bass frequencies or something... there are no fluorescent lights, but there's alot going on.

So I think it is likely a combination of 2 things:
1) there was a compromise in grounding in the guitar (located and fixed)
2) it's a noisy space, ...and that compromised ground allowed ME to become an antenna when I grabbed the strings.

As I said- I found at least 2 things that were not properly grounded, and fixed them. Hopefully that was it. I won't know until I get back into the rehearsal space.

 

[ruger9]

You actually DID find something, and fixed it, and the ground wire must pass through and a tin blob on the shield of every pot on its way out to the ground, including the shielding copper tape. But the reading on the meter has just changed a bit, not fully to either extremes. It should read 0 or 100. Not 86.7 or 7 or something in between. You may have stray strands from ground wire - or else - that connects to something when the control plate is put back on.
).

Yes, the fact that I'm still getting a reading when I test jack-to-bridge ground is concerning....

 

[MatsEriksson]

No, I don't have keys for the rehearsal space. It's very frustrating that this only happens THERE, and not at home... but yes I did find 2 things that were not properly grounded (the tone pot and the copper shielding tape), and grounded them. The back of the control cavity cover also has shielding tape, and it does make contact with the shielding tape in the cavity. All the writing now looks correct- it matches what I find with internet searches.

SO... unless there is a tiny strand that I can't see with my 51 year old eyes (time for me to get some readers), OR one of the solder "blobs" is a cold joint, I'm at a loss.

Yes, I removed the strings to get the bridge off. No point in totally slacking them, because I had to remove the saddles to get the bridge mounting screws. Actually FASTER just to change strings.

here's my likes for all that...

 

[MatsEriksson]

Now, new year, I should really start another thread about this. But you won't believe this. I can't/couldn't and wont believe this. You could knock me down with a feather, or **** me sideways...

Today, the band I'm in, we changed and relocated to a new rehearsal space, and guess what?

My strings started to buzz too when I touched the strings...!!!!

Never happened before, I have not changed strings, and the others just went stumped. I had no time to deal with it, but I bickered and whined, that we have to "complain" to the landlord eventually, when office hours starts to occur (and/or pandemic restrictions relieves). I wont pay any rent for this...and it reminded me big time about this thread. I had ONLY one guitar with me though. The same I used to have in the other rehearsal space.

So, now we're two about it!

 

[Wally]

Now, new year, I should really start another thread about this. But you won't believe this. I can't/couldn't and wont believe this. You could knock me down with a feather, or **** me sideways...

Today, the band I'm in, we changed and relocated to a new rehearsal space, and guess what?

My strings started to buzz too when I touched the strings...!!!!

Never happened before, I have not changed strings, and the others just went stumped. I had no time to deal with it, but I bickered and whined, that we have to "complain" to the landlord eventually, when office hours starts to occur (and/or pandemic restrictions relieves). I wont pay any rent for this...and it reminded me big time about this thread. I had ONLY one guitar with me though. The same I used to have in the other rehearsal space.

So, now we're two about it!

Do you own a wall outlet tester?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Power-G...VzfDACh22sApGEAQYASABEgLAg_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

IF you can factually inform the landlord of a wiring problem..if there is one..your complaint will carry more weight. Imho, every electrically amplified instrument should own one of these testers.

 

[ruger9]

Now, new year, I should really start another thread about this. But you won't believe this. I can't/couldn't and wont believe this. You could knock me down with a feather, or **** me sideways...

Today, the band I'm in, we changed and relocated to a new rehearsal space, and guess what?

My strings started to buzz too when I touched the strings...!!!!

Never happened before, I have not changed strings, and the others just went stumped. I had no time to deal with it, but I bickered and whined, that we have to "complain" to the landlord eventually, when office hours starts to occur (and/or pandemic restrictions relieves). I wont pay any rent for this...and it reminded me big time about this thread. I had ONLY one guitar with me though. The same I used to have in the other rehearsal space.

So, now we're two about it!

OMG TOO FUNNY!!!!

We haven't rehearsed yet, it seems there is always someone who "might have been exposed" to someone with covid, and our drummer is REALLY worried about that stuff. We are supposed to go tomorrow, we'll see....

 

[MatsEriksson]

Do you own a wall outlet tester?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Power-G...VzfDACh22sApGEAQYASABEgLAg_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

IF you can factually inform the landlord of a wiring problem..if there is one..your complaint will carry more weight. Imho, every electrically amplified instrument should own one of these testers.

Yeah, I do own one, a mulitmeter too, and whatnot. Soldering iron. Shielding copper, insulation tape...gaffers tape... But when we relocated it was just as moving equipment to a gig, but so I didn't bring anything like that with me. We just plugged in briefly and fired it all up, just to test things, and my connection was cable from guitar directly into the amp. I laughed my ass off and the others didn't understand i've been "involved" in someone elses predicaments in this forum, so they just scratched heads. But .. but but...the bassist had exactly the same problem. Now we're three...

I will bring my FURMAN rack unit to the rehearsal space, too (apart from the wall outlet tester and multimeter) next time, but I hardly think it's the wiring. It's something in the air. It's a power grid conditioner/regulator but I doubt it can do anything to ground hum/buzz...it can maybe tell us something, but I believe this one's in the air...

 

[MatsEriksson]

It's something that spreads, contaminates. I shouldn't even bothered to reply to this thread in the first place. I knew it would be contageous...watch out you all others in this thread, no matter where you live... it'll pass on like relay system....

 

[MatsEriksson]

Do you own a wall outlet tester?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Power-G...VzfDACh22sApGEAQYASABEgLAg_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
.

BTW, no use of linking me to that one. We don't use three prongs in Sweden. Two prongs and 220 volt. But I know what you meant anyway, and I already got one. Thanks anyway...

Mine looks like this, and is this one...

 

[Wally]

Apologies for not noting that you are back in the Old World. As for having a tool and not using it, all I can say is that I never plug into an outlet without checking it. Ommv.....

 

[MatsEriksson]

Just so I am not hijacking this thread. Yesterday we had a run in the new rehersal space, and EVERY stringed instrument, basses, several guitars, even with active EMG pickups behaved like this. Buzzed when touching strings. No faulty outlet. It's something in the air. BUT! This is Ruger9s thread and his problems. We have to talk to the landlord, I am suspecting a too close vincinity to power grid central or external cell phone antennas, and yada yada. Next time we're looking for a new rehearsal space, I'll bring a small amp , guitars, and testing equipment with me before we make the plunge. But again, another thread. This is about Ruger9s problems and let's keep it to that.

Just thought it was a funny/timely coincidence.

 

[MatsEriksson]

Apologies for not noting that you are back in the Old World. As for having a tool and not using it, all I can say is that I never plug into an outlet without checking it. Ommv.....

Well, FYI only, I can tell that in Sweden, we're not that much in need for such things. We have a pretty stable power grid, however, I've frequently played in Denmark too, it's just cross the bridge 30 minutes away and they have a more dodgy power grid at certain gig venues. Been into lots of problems there. But in Sweden, since we use 2 prongs only, if some kind of problem occurs, it's - usually - only to turn on the plug and plug it into the wall outlet again, and then you turn PHASE and ZERO around and it can kill hum big time. So the need for such plug and power indicators are kind of moot and unnecessary around here.... mostly.... I did use it though at the new place, but to no avail.

So, really, it's a tool that I've definitely not ever have had to use at home, or in studio. And not have to bring it out on every gig. Only if I am in the neighboring country which happens every fourth leap day or something....

 

[Wally]

Mats, we used to have two prong outlets, too. I was taught to hear the hum and turn the plug around at the outlet or t9 use the ground/polarity switch in the larger amps that had them. However, ime and imho, a three prong outlet is safer and quieter IF it is wired correctly. Some old school players still like to have their polarity switch even if they have a grounded Ac power cord. If they encounter a certain type of miswired outlet, they can then correct that error at the amp as you describe. However, those are folks such as you and I that understand how to work with an outlet. There is a reason why we have the grounded power circuits that we have...they are safer IF wired correctly. Hence my suggestion of a circuit tester...not knowing you already have a two prong tester...which is something I have never seen.

 

[MatsEriksson]

... However, ime and imho, a three prong outlet is safer and quieter IF it is wired correctly....There is a reason why we have the grounded power circuits that we have...they are safer IF wired correctly. Hence my suggestion of a circuit tester...not knowing you already have a two prong tester...which is something I have never seen.

Well, there's the culprit isn't it? If they're wired correctly. Important word here.. if.

And if they aren't there's no way for use to whine and bicker to any landlord. But if something happens, the insurance company will tell us "no way we pay..." because the dodgy and faulty wiring. While the grounded plugs and outlets really are three way in a sort of way, with the earth as a outer "flange" on both sides, there's not really three prongs, there are two prong. It's AC so it doesn't matter in which way you turn on them... generally speaking... by and large.... normally...

Remember the saying from mr Edison himself was: "Alternate current is a waste of time..."

Now let's get back on track and not debate this. Different countries. Luckily we don't live in Japan where they got three different systems...voltage that is...

 

[MatsEriksson]

What I can contribute to, too, in this thread towards anything with buzz on, and different rehearsal spaces, that I urge anyone else to check out too, is, since the advent of LED lights, which consists of semiconductors, they can be just as prone to "dirtying up" electric signals as the fluorescent (strip) lights in the ceiling. All CE certified products doesn't contain good enough standard for this, I'm afraid.

And numerous pedals consists of LEDs, and so on.

But regarding those outlet testers, they don't do the continuity test of the earth, they only test that it has connection, not how good or bad it is. Or if it's anythng in between.

By and large, there exist more electric pollution gadgets today, than there ever was. Cell phones, USB chargers, Cell phone antenna stations outside, Computers, iPads, laptops, modelling amps with CPUs and high frequency CPUs, LED ligths, fluorescent lights. Not to speak of guitars, their pickups, pedals, and amps. Throw all these together into a quagmire of spaghetti mess, and you will have a field day with this pandoras box, and can of worms.

And never be able to sort it out.