Building my first Tele. Nitro or poly?

[El_Vaquero]

As the tittle says, Im a Strat guy (actually hot rodded Strat HSS Pickups), but now I’m building my first Tele. I already have bought the neck (fender Jason Isbell), but now I’m trying to decide between a Vintera II body or if it would be better to bought a Guitar Mill/MJT body and get someone finish it in nitro and match the headstock.

I have never owned a nitro guitar, what are the CONS of a nitro finish?

What are your preferences?

 

[Boreas]

Poly is bombproof but difficult to repair. Nitro is not as durable, but easier to repair. It also tends to fade, yellow, or "check" over time. If you want your guitar to look like new 30+ years from now, use poly. If you like vintage patina and honest wear marks, use nitro.

 

[boris bubbanov]

You may find chemically different finishes on the shelf to buy, than what is found in the USA. Might be a bit more toxic, might produce a better finish.

If you want the finish done pretty quickly, use a wipe on finish. It can serve as a sealer. Then you can do some lengthy research here and see what appeals to you a couple of months later (when you disassemble the guitar to make whatever changes.)

But we really need to know, what wood species. Ash, Alder, Basswood? Mahogany. Some need grain filler and some don't. Some you can spray lacquer and call it done, others you better fill the pores or you'll have pinholes in your finish.

I enjoyed taking my time on all the ones I did. Mostly lacquer (or nitro, in some places any spray on finish is lacquer but I don't call any catalyzed finish "lacquer" as that's confusing IMO).

 

[Freeman Keller]

As the tittle says, Im a Strat guy (actually hot rodded Strat HSS Pickups), but now I’m building my first Tele. I already have bought the neck (fender Jason Isbell), but now I’m trying to decide between a Vintera II body or if it would be better to bought a Guitar Mill/MJT body and get someone finish it in nitro and match the headstock.

I have never owned a nitro guitar, what are the CONS of a nitro finish?

What are your preferences?

Nitrocellulose lacquer and "poly" are two very different finishes even tho they can look pretty much the same.

Nitro, or lacquer, is an evaporative finish where the solvent evaporates and leaves a thin film of resins. It dries. It is applied by spraying and is the traditional finish on vintage and vintage inspired instruments, it has been is use for a hundred years. Lacquer can be applied clear, but it has slight amber cast, and turns more amber as it ages. It is prone to checking and cracking which gives vintage instruments some of their character. I can be repaired fairly easily. It is difficult to automate the application, it is almost always done by hand.

"Poly" (there are several) is a modern reactive finish, when it is applied to the instrument it undergoes a chemical reaction and cures. The reaction may occur on contact with the air, exposure to UV light (Taylor guitars), or a catalyst (so called 2K finish). It has become popular with large manufacturers, less coats applied by robot sprayers makes it significantly cheaper.

For a home builder both offer advantages, but they are different. You can purchase instrument grade intracellular lacquer in aerosol rattle cans and if you are careful, do a pretty adequate job of finishing at home. Lacquer is toxic and explosive, there are cautions that need to be taken but lots of people have finished their home made guitars with it. My first two were rattle can lacquer and they are 25 years old and still look great.

The other option for a home builder is "wipe on poly" which can be purchased at a box hardware store (Lowes or Home Depot here). It is intended as a finish for hard wood floors, that is what I have on mine. As the name says it is wiped on an left to cure. It takes less coats than lacquer and can provide a smooth high gloss finish that looks fine on electric guitars. It is difficult to tint or color the poly but there are ways around that.

If you are buying a finished body go with whatever the manufacture uses, you might not have a choice. Warmoth uses some sort of poly, trust them. If you are seeking someone to do the finish for you (we have several on this forum but you would have issues with shipping across boarders) again, the recommendation from your finisher. Solid opaque colors can often be done by car or motorcycle painter, they will use automotive two part products but should know how to work with it.

Either choice is good in my opinion. Poly will be a modern looking thick smooth finish that will last a long time. It is difficult to fix when you chip it but it a little less prone to chipping. Lacquer on the other hand will change with age an look correct as the guitar gets older. I think more special effects (sun bursts, fades, transparent colors) can be done with lacquer but maybe that is because I only work with lacquer.

Good luck with your choice and your build.

 

[jhova]

I know this isn’t a super popular choice, but shellac is another great option. It’s not toxic, relatively safe, can be tinted, needs no special spray gun or equipment, and you can go quite thin with it.

Nitro is too toxic without a spray booth and poly is just too plasticy for me.

 

[Painter644]

Depends if you’ve ever painted previously. Also, it depends on the final look you’re trying to achieve. If you want a solid color like a car, poly is your friend. If you want a “worn in” finish, nitro is better as it requires fewer coats. Both can look “factory” initially, but nitro will wear while poly endures. Then there’s the build up to the color coat…

 

[AliceAngelTele]

There is at least one other option:

 

[Sparky2]

I have owned, bought, and sold at least a hundred guitars over the past 15 years.

If you held a gun to my head, I couldn't tell you whether they had nitro finishes or poly finishes.

They are guitars.
I play them, and then wipe them down with Finger Ease (strings and fingerboards) and Turtle Wax Express Shine carnauba wax before I hang them back on the wall.

They all shine and play just the same.
Wonderfully.

 

[jvin248]

.

Nitro takes six months to dry completely so it's not gummy to the touch. Make sure you have explosion proof exhaust fans when spraying.

Whatever finish you go with, there is no tone difference. Despite the long lucid forum posts waxing lyrically about nitro. They are just trying to capture the romance of old guitars to market to buyers for higher profits.

.

 

[Ricky D.]

I've built one partscaster. Swamp ash body. I used an oil stain to pop the grain, then Minwax Honey Pine Polyurethane to seal the grain and provide a high gloss finish. I chose poly because it is far more durable than lacquer. I used one coat. It turned out well. Nice thin high gloss finish.

 

[pbenn]

Hard to top great advice above.

Maybe: if you are going to use rattle cans, spend the extra $10 for a clip on pistol grip handle.
You're going to need a dry right forefinger.

Also: pro spray booth electric fans are spark shielded and insulated, for fume reasons.
Normal fans are not... and should be nowhere near the fume cloud...

Analyze your chosen spray location for prevailing wind. Which window blows "out" naturally, and can you improve the flow somehow?
With lacquer, your coats are going to be fast, wait ten minutes, fast, wait ten minutes, fast.

Dare say lacquer is a friendlier texture to have on an object in the home, after it's cured and sanded a bit.

 

[Freeman Keller]

Maybe: if you are going to use rattle cans, spend the extra $10 for a clip on pistol grip handle.
You're going to need a dry right forefinger.

Also buy the auxiliary nozzles that SM sells. They give much better control and a better pattern and can be cleaned in lacquer thinner and reused.

 

[El_Vaquero]

Thank you all for the replies and advices!

What about weather and nitro? Very dry on summer and very humid during winter. The neck on my American Strat (not nitro), I’ve been playing the hell out of that guitar and last si yet I noticed that the finish was “relicing” on some spots because of the humid room were I was playing.

 

[boris bubbanov]

Thank you all for the replies and advices!

What about weather and nitro? Very dry on summer and very humid during winter. The neck on my American Strat (not nitro), I’ve been playing the hell out of that guitar and last si yet I noticed that the finish was “relicing” on some spots because of the humid room were I was playing.

The "nitro" finishes like hot dry weather - it speeds the complete drying of the film. That American with the poly finish will not relic, except if moisture is getting under the poly around the frets. That can be kinda ugly - this is what happens to my brother's basses, sometimes. But let's say the neck finish on my brother's basses had been "nitro". Well, that finish would be mostly worn off of there, entirely.

 

[Freeman Keller]

Thank you all for the replies and advices!

What about weather and nitro? Very dry on summer and very humid during winter. The neck on my American Strat (not nitro), I’ve been playing the hell out of that guitar and last si yet I noticed that the finish was “relicing” on some spots because of the humid room were I was playing.

I guess my feeling is that a catalyzed finish is going to be more bomb proof in really adverse conditions, but then I kind of baby my guitars. I'm very sensitive to humidity (most of my guitars are acoustics or hollow bodies), I keep them in cases and watch the humidity in my home.

As far as applying the stuff, again, my experience is with lacquer, I only apply when conditions are good (over 60F and under 60% RH). If lacquer is sprayed at too high a humidity it can take on a hazy appearance. Lacquer has been used for many years on all kinds of instruments and seems to withstand a lot of variation

 

[El_Vaquero]

The "nitro" finishes like hot dry weather - it speeds the complete drying of the film. That American with the poly finish will not relic, except if moisture is getting under the poly around the frets. That can be kinda ugly - this is what happens to my brother's basses, sometimes. But let's say the neck finish on my brother's basses had been "nitro". Well, that finish would be mostly worn off of there, entirely.

Does Nitro/lacquer gets sticky with humid weather? Like, if I’m “struming” with my picking hand, and my arm is touching the body, does the finish will com off easily on humid weather?

On the attached pic you can see how the neck looks on the guitar I mentioned, last winter I could rub my hand and take of the finish But I never noticed that before, and a lot of that is from playing, only a little area I took off that way when I felt the neck sticky and see what was happening with the finish. I hope I’m explaining myself well, sorry for my English

 

[Painter644]

Thank you all for the replies and advices!

What about weather and nitro? Very dry on summer and very humid during winter. The neck on my American Strat (not nitro), I’ve been playing the hell out of that guitar and last si yet I noticed that the finish was “relicing” on some spots because of the humid room were I was playing.

A humid room is less likely than humid spray conditions to cause finish failure.

 

[DekeDog]

Nitro takes six months to dry completely so it's not gummy to the touch. Make sure you have explosion proof exhaust fans when spraying.

Whatever finish you go with, there is no tone difference. Despite the long lucid forum posts waxing lyrically about nitro. They are just trying to capture the romance of old guitars to market to buyers for higher profits.

Though you are no doubt correct about the dry rate of NC lacquers used on guitars, it doesn't make sense to me. Nitrocellulose inherently dries very quickly, and it's a very hard, brittle resin. If it takes a long time to dry, it is because a very slow evaporating solvent or diluent has been used in the formulation, likely to keep spray nozzles from drying in and clogging, or the NC lacquer has been modified with another resin type that holds on to solvent.

I've formulated thousands of NC coatings for another industry, so I can't speak for the guitar industry, nor can I say for sure what solvent blends or modifying resins are used. I most often would formulate knowing NC would speed up a coating's dry rate. I read where NC coatings for guitars are often formulated with diluents (not a true solvent for NC resin, but compatible in the solvent blend and used to affect dry rate or other performance properties) like toluene or xylene and can retard dry rate and prevent top-down drying in the coating layer.

It just doesn't make sense to me a resin that inherently dries so quickly should take months to dry.

Also, if an NC coating is applied in high humidity conditions, it can "blush," which means that trapped water in the coating can cause it to turn white due to the incompatibility of water and NC. Also, the use of alcohols in that solvent blend can absorb water (hygroscopic) and also cause blushing. The last solvent to evaporate off of the coating must be a true solvent for the resin.

 

[Lou Tencodpees]

I like nitrocellulose lacquer finishes. The ones Ive tried doing myself have been difficult here in my part of Texas. I've only done backyard rattle can spraying, and finding a day where temperature, humidity and wind cooperate has been tedious. All I can say is that I have some backyard environment embedded in my finishes, lol. Having a can of blush retarder on standby is also a good idea. Its not likely I'll try another. Working with shellac has been a lot easier, I can do that in the garage.

 

[telemnemonics]

Poly WHAT?
Ester?
Or urethane?
The second is nice.