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Brooks & Dunn Muscians Thread Removed. Let's talk

Discussion in 'Telecaster Discussion Forum' started by TDPRI, Aug 29, 2005.

  1. randysmojo

    randysmojo Tele-Afflicted

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    I had heard at one time that the guys that Clint Black used on his "Nothing but theTaillights" album were mostly if not intirely the same group that went on tour with him to back that album. Does anyone know if that's true?
     
  2. jpkusa

    jpkusa Tele-Holic

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    My two (or four) cents...

    Booker T & the MGs played on all of Otis Redding's recordings, but it was the Bar-Kays who toured with Otis. However, that doesn't reflect poorly on the Bar-Kays - they went on to have a lot of their own hits. To me, Stax was the model for what a creative, hit-making studio environment/culture could be (Motown is another example).

    That having been said, I don't think the Nashville culture has ever been anything like that, now or then. Stax was a local indie (even Atlantic was an indie then). Nashville has always had a bigger corporate presence and more aversion to risk.

    Keith Urban is a great guitarist, but I don't think he would have made it as a session player in Nashville. However, he has obviously decided not to fire himself from his own sessions! Cheers to him.
     
  3. blue water girl

    blue water girl Tele-Afflicted

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    Keith Urban was a very fine session guitarist indeed in Nashville before he launched his solo career and Brent worked with him and it is where they met. He's on a number of highly successful albums as an electric and acoustic player.

    Keith Urban is an extraordinary guitar player and arranger who came to Nashville and got session work in no time flat. If you have what it takes you will get session work. He was a complete unknown with no connections and had no trouble.
     
  4. jpkusa

    jpkusa Tele-Holic

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    I stand corrected. When I was there, he was in that band The Ranch.
     
  5. kp8

    kp8 Friend of Leo's

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    hee hee, but of course, it is common knowedge that Hendrix often recorded, or re-recorded bass parts that he was unhappy with. That old story, recounted in a recent guitar mag of Dylan complimenting Redding on his bass parts for "watchtower" ... of course Jimi had done them to Reddings embarrassment...

    And the Jimmy page stories, recounted here. Ever see the video of Can't Explain? Pete turns his back at the crowd during the solo... prolly cause it wasn't his. Page recorded that one (as if PT couldn't lay down his own extra sloppy solo.... hee hee... still it is an excellent sloppy solo at that)

    -k--
     
  6. blue water girl

    blue water girl Tele-Afflicted

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    Where do all these tales come from? If a person is enjoying the album why does it matter what sort of musician is playing on it? On that particuilar album the guitar work is done by - stand back -

    Chet Atkins, Larry Carlton, Larry Byrom, Steve Wariner, Clint Black, Dann Huff, Mike Brignardello, and Mark Knophler. It also included the London Symphony Orchestra, session aces Eddie Bayers, Michael Rhodes, Stuart Duncan, and over 20 other well known names.
    And no, they didn't tour with Clint. Anyone who wants to know who played on an album can go to allmusic.com. Type in the artist's name. Then when that comes up click on discography. Then whatever album you have questions about you click. When that info comes up you click on credits to see the entire list of players, background vocalists, engineers, mixers, producers, you name it. This particular album is LOADED with ATeam players. There are no non-session players credited anywhere on the album. It's produced by James Stroud - one of the biggest names in Nashville.
     
  7. jlrich

    jlrich Tele-Afflicted

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    Whichever your views are about studio or road musicians, if you think about it, it is a good way to keep more professional musicians in business.
     
  8. Rick Towne

    Rick Towne Tele-Afflicted

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    BWG or anyone else in Nashville--ever work with Don Potter.?

    in the studio? I'm very familiar with his history and played with him in a live church service context. I'm curious as to anyone else's experiences.
     
  9. OutlawSteph

    OutlawSteph Tele-Meister

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    I think Shooter Jennings used his 'road guys' to record his album. They are a bit unpolished and that's the appeal of Shooter for me. It's hard to get into some country acts because they are not bands, but more like personalities that are promoted which just isn't cool or interesting IMHO, but I'll also go out and search for albums just because great session players are on them.

    Anyway.. I love the opinoins and debate, and I agree with Paul.. respect each other!
     
  10. blue water girl

    blue water girl Tele-Afflicted

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    Re: BWG or anyone else in Nashville--ever work with Don Pott

    Yes, if it's the same Don Potter. Brent has worked on many many albums with Don Potter who plays acoustic. Is that the same guy. They have probably played on at least 20 albums together and maybe more. The Judds, Kenny Chesney, Neal McCoy, many more, those are just three I thought of right away. He plays on alot of Dan Hill's albums and Dan is a good friend of Brent's. Don Potter is a really good player with a fine reputation. Does he live in California? I see that is where you are and that is also why I am not sure it is the same person.
     
  11. Twin Reiver

    Twin Reiver Tele-Holic

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    Studio systems--whether in Nashville or Hollywood or anyplace else--are set up for a reason. And that reason is purely financial. It is about creative control and minimizing risks in order to try to insure success. The problem with this, which has absolutely nothing to do with the artistic merits of studio musicians as nobody would argue their abilities, is that the best music is not created by minimizing risks. It is about taking risks.

    When Bob Dylan left New York and made Blonde on Blonde in Nashville with session musicians, he was taking risks. And when Jack White made that Loretta Lynn record in East Nashville without session musicians, he was taking risks. There is nothing inherently wrong with using session musicians or not using them. But I think the true shame of the studio system in Nashville is not what it churns out but what it excludes.
     
  12. AJ Love

    AJ Love Friend of Leo's

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    It IS financially motivated, sure, but part of that financial motivation is in hiring studio pros who are consumate musicians that can lay down their parts in a matter of minutes with perfect tone. There's a real art to that... not to say the road musicians can't do that, too, cuz alot of them can but Producers go with who they know is gonna come through for them when the clock is ticking big $$$ every minute

    note--- I am posting about what I know in the blues world, I would imagine it is similar in Nashville
     
  13. Twin Reiver

    Twin Reiver Tele-Holic

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    But is a part laid down in a matter of minutes with perfect tone the most exciting music? From a blues background, would you rather here Jimmy Reed and Elmore James and JB Hutto, or some one with perfect tone and technical proficiency? It really is a matter of personal preference, I guess. But unfortunately technical proficiency is the name of the game, to the exclusion of nearly everything else, and the motivation is purely, as I said, financial.
     
  14. jpkusa

    jpkusa Tele-Holic

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    Well, if you're not paying triple scale, you can afford to experiment with different players. ;)

    I agree with Twin Reiver 100%. My problem is not with the players at all - my problem is with the labels, writers, and producers. But that's just my personal opinion, and opinions are like...well..you know. There are millions of people who get a lot of joy out of modern country, and more power to them.
     
  15. Twin Reiver

    Twin Reiver Tele-Holic

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    And also there is somebody like Marty Stuart. A great, great player. As is Kenny Vaughan, who plays plenty of sessions with other people. But what Marty has put together with the Fabulous Superlatives is really great, and it doesn't ever feel like session guys showing up and punching a clock (and God bless session guys for being able to make a living playing music, that's not a dig at all). The Fabulous Superlatives play and sound like a real honest-to-goodness band, because they are. And they take risks and try to make something fresh and original and challenging, like a good band, whether it is Staples Singers-style gospel music or more traditional honky-tonk or whatever. I wouldn't want to paint with too broad a brush, but I would venture that session musicians are not hired to play something that artistically reaches for something, but to play something that will almost surely sell.
     
  16. Bill  Hullett

    Bill Hullett Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

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    FWIW

    The economics can be a big part of why there are studio musicians...

    These are the facts ....REGULAR RECORDING SCALE id apx. $400 per man for a three hour session...leader gets paid double...(buy the way...once you've been leader....you come to appreciate why they are paid double) a world class studio is apx. $200 per hour and a great engineer and his second engineer together run apx $125 per hour...now if you add up say a seven piece band that "party" that the artist is paying for is running about $1500 to $2000 per hour (this is not counting the producers fee...these are just hard cash out costs..) that boils down to anywhere from $25 to $35 per minute! these are costs that the record label will pay, even if the artist uses his own band...
    Just a little problem like a noisy pedal board or a bad cord....or a little tuning problem (once again....thank you Glendale Saddles!!!!!!!) can send the whole room into shock if cool heads and seasoned studio rats aren't there to prevail....It can be scary having been in downtime for ten minutes while someone is getting a problem fixed, .....so now the arrangement is slowly slipping from everyones brain...you've only run the song once, you've only heard it once before that , and it's now 7 minutes until the session is over and overtime is not an option because everyone is booked somewhere else and you've got to play it right, and it has to be now.....not later! Any really good musician (Road guy or not) can perform to this level....but it will be vastly harder the first few 100 times those kind of parameters are placed upon a new comer as opposed to seasoned session guys...These are real world senarios.....and you don't want to be "the guy" who caused the downtime if you can help it!!!!! :lol:



    I beg to differ with this statement ....first of all, I don't see "reaching for something" and "playing something that will almost surely sell" as separate goals that can't be achieved simultaniously ......I can tell you from personal experience and I know that Brent or Reggie could too, That producers are always wanting something new and that preasure is always there...

    But having said all that, I know that the road guys that work with the top acts are world class players and trust me, they have parameters tied to their jobs that would make session guys cry "Uncle"....none of these jobs are nearly as easy or as glamerous as they seem from a distance, but they are both really rewarding if done right!!!!

    YMMV...
    Bill Hullett
     
  17. AJ Love

    AJ Love Friend of Leo's

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    Thanks for weighing in, Bill

    Having been a road dawg (and I'm about to get back into it) its definitely true that there are trade-offs to everything. Those 10-15 hour travel days aren't easy on someone's constitution! ;)

    in regards to a few other things mentioned:

    I would argue that part of what makes a studio musician an A-List player (along with relability, dependability and experience) is not only being able to lay it down in one take with perfect tone but also with great feeling. The best cats I hear do all that plus some...

    If a record seems "over-produced" that would be the Producer's fault, not the studio cat's fault
     
  18. moondoggie999

    moondoggie999 Tele-Holic

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    Session players amaze me.

    I could never cope with the stress and the pressure to be creative and fresh within such a fixed time frame. I would become an absolute nervous wreck. :lol: It sometimes takes me days to find the part I want to play on a song.

    We all have our talents and that would not be one of mine. A drummer friend of mine was relating a story almost exactly like what Bill Hullett was saying. He (my drummer friend) loves the pressure and that moment of creating under pressure. He says its intense and doesn't always work but that it can be a very cool rush and what a way to make a living!
     
  19. Bill  Hullett

    Bill Hullett Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

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    yes....

    moondoggie....

    You are right about the 'rush' thing...there is not a better high in the world than to slam down great tracks with your best friends in record time....on days when its right, it feels like you're invinsable!!! :lol: I'm sure than the same rush applies to playing a great concert!!!!
    Bill Hullett
     
  20. TG

    TG Doctor of Teleocity

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    I was disapointed when I first heard that. That's the only Aerosmith album where I really like the guitar playing.



    I've little experience with the topic of this thread but from reading all these interesting posts it seems like it's the same old quandry we all get into when we want to be musicians AND make money at it...even if you're just a weekend player like me. Keeping it economically viable while keeping the soul of the music intact. Idealism versus pragmatism.
    Hard to get it right so that everybody's happy.


    Thinking about the road player vs studio player thing I can see that it could involve different types of people. I play my best live and I get very calm and 'in the moment' and I rarely make mistakes. Even in unpleasant and stressful venues. But whenever I try to record I have a hard time. There's something about knowing that a record button has been pushed that makes me tense up and get clumsy. If a red light comes on it's even worse. I seize right up.
    I'd accept a live gig with anybody but I'd be be very hesitant to work in a studio if money and time were involved.
    I'd imagine that some players would function better the other way round.
     
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