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Brooks & Dunn Muscians Thread Removed. Let's talk

Discussion in 'Telecaster Discussion Forum' started by TDPRI, Aug 29, 2005.

  1. Chris S.

    Chris S. Asst. Admin

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    Re: too bad

    Exactly. I think some of the contributions by folks like blue water girl, Redd, Lou, etc., are some of the most valuable and fascinating things I read here. Whether it's the ins and outs of studio work or the experiences of touring pros, they can often give us a glimpse into the inner workings of the music business that many folks will never get to witness firsthand.

    I think it's also instructive to note how careful and courteous most of these folks are when discussing fellow pros and their work, and how they will often go out of their way to NOT "dis" others in the business. They've learned that 1) Manners are important, and 2) Like any other business involving humans, personal relations and feelings are worth taking into consideration. You don't get a lot of referrals by trash talking, and often (or eventually) it comes around to bite you back. IMO, it's really unfortunate that some others choose to use such threads as an opportunity to spout off and cause trouble. (I had a friend who used to say jokingly about her father-in-law, "Oh, he's parked with his mouth running." I always got a kick out of the expression...) ;-)

    You know, people say stupid stuff here all the time. Most of the time, most of us ignore it; sometimes that's harder than others (especially when people "dig in" on their "positions," or are actually out to cause trouble in the first place.). Often times it's expressing opinions about artists (OR gear) that other people hold dear; in those instances, it would be nice if everyone would "play nice" and take others' feelings into account.

    I've said before, I hope NO ONE is ever made to feel like they can't express an <u>opinion</u> on the TDPRI. If we all felt and thought alike, this would be a very boring world, indeed. But like most freedoms, that one comes with a certain repsonsibility, in this case to be mindful of both the opinions of others AND the general atmosphere of this board where we like to spend so much time and share so much good information. (Of course, it also assumes the best of intentions of ALL the particpants in the first place...)

    And that's all in MY opinion, as always. ;-) CS
     
  2. stevieboy

    stevieboy Poster Extraordinaire

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    I think there's a big fundamental difference between the Beatles and Brooks and Dunn's road or studio musicians.

    When you buy a Beatles' album, you expect the Beatles. The Beatles is (are?) those four guys. They of course could add other players for projects, live or recorded, but essentially when it says Beatles, its John, Paul, George and Ringo.

    When you buy a Brooks and Dunn album, you expect Brooks and Dunn, not the guys who play on the album, or who play in the road band. We on this page are somewhat aware of the band, but most of the general public isn't. In my book, all those people are very talented and B&D, or Alan Jackson, or any other name, would be nowhere without them, but people are buying Brooks and Dunn, not a "band".

    Brooks and Dunn are a duo, Alan Jackson is a "solo" act. The Beatles are a band.
     
  3. Oskar

    Oskar Friend of Leo's

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    Currently reading Waylon Jennings' autobiography

    and he has a few words to say about studio musicians versus the guys he took on the road. And being the rebel he was you can probably guess on which side he came down on.
    It was a very hot button and controvertial issue back then, and it still is. It is much more prevalent in Nashville and country, but that is because most contemporary country acts focus on a single performer, not an entire band. Therein lies a big factor.
     
  4. teledude66

    teledude66 Friend of Leo's

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    Re: Currently reading Waylon Jennings' autobiography

    i don't know what the book says, but like they said in the first thread, it probably has a lot to do with "time" like they say time is money, but i'm sure with Waylon time meant taking time for what he wanted not what a label wanted... to me it's a non issue unless it's stated as a band effort...
     
  5. zane

    zane Tele-Afflicted

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    Songs from yesteryear would've sounded a lot different, & might not have "hits" at all if it hadn't been for people like...James Burton...I believe he played on alot-o-songs for people he didn't tour with.
     
  6. blue water girl

    blue water girl Tele-Afflicted

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    Waylon Jennings is someone to be respected period. I do know he spent a fair amount of time recording in Nashville studios and if he said he had problems with it then I am sure he did. John Beland played guitar for him during some time frame, I do know that, and he has been on many sessions. He is a studio player as well as an solo guitarist. But yes, I have heard stories that he had alot of gripes with Nashville.

    But I remember when I met Waylon Jennings the first time he was just so much larger than life I got chills down my arms. Wow does he make a great first impression! He saw Brent from a distance and started saying "There's The Man!" and grabbed Brent and put him in a big bear hug and told me I was married to the geee-taaar man!!! He then proceeded to say nothing but good things about Brent and a couple of other guys they both knew who are session musicians. Brent had started playing on most of Willie Nelson's albums about that time and Mr. Jennings was praising Brent on some of those songs and just his work in general. Said he had worn out Brent's Hot Wired album and when was he going to make another album. So I don't think he had anything against the studio players or at least not all of them.
     
  7. AJ Love

    AJ Love Friend of Leo's

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    I know Brent Mason plays on Alan Jackson's albums. What is the name of the guitarist(s) who tour with Jackson?
     
  8. blue water girl

    blue water girl Tele-Afflicted

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    His name is Danny Groah. Brent is the one who got him the job with Alan (he was Brent's brother Randy's roommate at the time) and also worked with Danny in the early years when he was just beginning to tour with Alan so he could get the licks down and explain how he played the songs. It's been a long time since Danny has needed any help from Brent, he is a great player and very nice guy.
     
  9. AJ Love

    AJ Love Friend of Leo's

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    thanks Blue Water Girl

    I am much more in tune with the Chicago blues scene than the Nashville country scene... in Chicago for many years there were a bunch of albums made on Alligator Records which featured Albert Collins' great rhythm section including Johnny B Gayden on bass... and before that on Chess Records many many albums had Buddy Guy on guitar and Willie Dixon on bass

    Much different, still, than the Nashville scene where studio and touring musicians are so seperate

    I'm very much fascinated with the Nashville music scene, its great to be able to get first-hand info here on the TDPRI
     
  10. Oskar

    Oskar Friend of Leo's

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    A point of clarification

    Waylon's issues stemmed more from the fact that he was required (this was his sentiment, not my words) to use studio musicians in the studio, in spite of his protests and advocating for the use of his bandmates. He just didn't like the way everyone wanted to change his music. It was not a matter of him not liking the studio musicians personally or professionally. He didn't use charts and arrangements and generally flew by the seat of his pants when he played. A sharp contrast to the often well scripted and scored sessions the label (RCA) wanted him to do.
    He was quite direct in his autobiography about his frustrations at recording a song and then coming back the next day to hear it and it was entirely different. His major issues were with the label and producers, not necessarily the studio musicians.

    For those who wish to come to their own conclusions about Waylon and his Nashville recording experience can read his book:

    Waylon: An Autobiography with Lenny Kaye. New York: Warner Books, 1996.
     
  11. CountryShawn

    CountryShawn Tele-Holic

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    I was surprised, although perhaps I shouldn't be, that there was such polarized views of the situation.

    There is a more pronounced bias in Nashville from the rest of the maintstream recording world to using a group of studio session guys for everything. I'm sure we'd all agree that doesn't HAVE to be the method used.

    Brad Paisley uses his road band to record, arrange and of course play live.

    I believe that Tim McGraw now uses the same model for the most part.

    It can indeed work, and has been proven that way in several examples, although it is by far the exception rather than the rule.
    One would have to summize that inherently, having the same dozen guys doing everything that comes out of Nashville cannot be healthy overall in the long run.

    It's not that it's necessarily better or worse, it's just opens the opportunity to be different and perhaps offer a fresh perspective.

    It is also true that not every session guy will be a road guy, and vice versa. I mean sure, some guys may not cut it as a session guy, but the two are not always mutually exclusive in the broad sense.

    A big part of it is the formulaic process that has won Nashville success, and there is little impetus to change it unless it proves that it is unequivocally broken. (Don't mess with the success)

    Unless the system is really bucked (and I've heard it takes some work) as Brad Paisley did to use his live band to record, it is the exception, not the rule.

    Did it work for Brad? Unquestionably, and I would add that it offered up something fresh from many perspectives that was a culmination of everyone involved.

    Hopefully with enough success with this model, it will be accepted as an equally successful method.

    As much as I respect the "A" session guys, it doesn't necessarily mean that I want to hear them on every single cut from every artist. I mean, Martina McBride is an incredibly talented singer, but that doesn't mean that we all want to hear her voice on every country song that comes out of Nashville. That's a more exaggerated example, but it illustrates the point.

    In my mind, this has not as much to do with talent or ability for the most part, (since it's been proven that there are folks entirely capable of doing it) - rather than the standard modus operandi of the Nashville music machine.

    That's my .02

    Cheers,

    Shawn
     
  12. AJ Love

    AJ Love Friend of Leo's

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    What about Merle Haggard? Has he mainly used his road band to record in recent years?
     
  13. blue water girl

    blue water girl Tele-Afflicted

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    While Brad Paisley may implement his band into his sessions, he uses plenty of studio players on all his albums and on the newest one just to name a few of them are James Burton, Stuart Duncan on fiddle, Jim "Moose" Brown on piano and keyboards, Bryan Sutton on mandolin, Jerry Douglas on dobro, Kevin Grantt on bass, Bernie Herms on piano, Mike Johnson on steel and dobro, Kenny Lewis on bass, and I remember he used most of those guys on Mud on the Tires in addition to the late Randy Hardison on drums.

    Tim McGraw did not use Brad as a model for using his band in recording sessions as he is the only one who has done it while completely using only his band. He did it for the first time in 2002. Brad hasn't done that. He is using at least 10 top guys on every album.

    There are alot of great session players working in studios right now, more than ever before. Brent no longer plays guitar on the majority of music out of Nashville - there are many great electric players like Kenny Greenberg, JT Corenfloss, Tom Bukovac, and others. They are still using Dan Huff, Reggie Young, and Brent Rowan. There are more whose names escape me at this moment. There are not a dozen guys playing on this stuff, I can think of a dozen A list keyboard players right now alone.

    If people want to work in the studio then they need to get into playing on demos in Nashville so their work can be heard. It's the cool thing in Nashville right now to be trying new musicians and changing things up. Brent hasn't played on a Martina McBride, Trisha Yearwood, Kenny Chesney, Terri Clark, Tim McGraw, Jessica Andrews, LeeAnn Womack (just to throw out a few artists) session in a while, they are trying other formulas. New acts are using other musicians like Gretchen Wilson, Big and Rich, Dierks Bentley. Everybody is trying out new people. It's a good thing. The producers and artists are always looking for new talent for the studio - the diamonds in the rough out there that just need a little bit of polishing. If anybody thinks they would like to give it a try they should do so - there is a good climate in Nashville for that if they are exceptional players that stay cool under pressure and have alot of great ideas.
     
  14. telewacked

    telewacked Tele-Holic

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    cool thread

    I'm really enjoying this thread now. Thank-you bwg and all you other knowledgable folks for a small peek into the "industry"
     
  15. CountryShawn

    CountryShawn Tele-Holic

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    Whilst Brad may not use the road band in exclusivity for the entire release, it was to generally illustrate that it can be done successfully, and probably to a larger degree than it is currently being done. Some of those, such as Jerry Douglas and James Burton were brought in as guests, as he did with Redd Volkaert on Spaghetti Western.

    Indeed Tim did this earlier, and it wasn't intentionally implied that he followed Brad's model specifically, rather the "road band" recording model generically.

    It comes down to this:

    Can a great record be made with good session guys? Yes
    Can a great record be made with a good road band? Yes

    The lines between the two of them can be blurred to be sure.

    The most demonstrative example of this would be the case of a country band, like Diamond Rio whereas they tour and record. The only difference is the exclusion of the singer as part of the "band".

    Truth is, the average joe doesn't know or care about this stuff - it's the musician community at large that is generally more aware and discerning that fuels these discussions.

    As you pointed out Julie, the mindset may indeed be changing to accomodate variety, (not better or worse - just different) which surely will be healthy in the long run.

    Shawn
     
  16. tom grossheider

    tom grossheider Tele-Holic Ad Free Member

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    Great thread! I would think that the demands of a studio vs live musician are very different, and most of the time not very compatible. For example, if you have a lot of booked session dates how can you hit the road for months? Or the other way around for live musicians? Brooks and Dunn will be here just a few miles away in Chicago Sept 10, though I will be out of town. Would like to have been able to meet James Pennebaker again (steel and fiddle with Big and Rich) but I'll be out of town. I missed the first thread, sure hope folks keep the nasties to themselves.
     
  17. Simpleman73

    Simpleman73 Tele-Meister

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    This is a great thread!!!! Maybe it's a good thing to have the studio guys and road guys. While the studio guys are doing there thing. The road guys can stay home for awhile with their familys before they hit the road again..
    I don't know i'm just talking out my a$% right now.

    Their all just maken that Easy Money. :lol:
     
  18. David Barnett

    David Barnett Doctor of Teleocity

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    Looks like risk avoidance behavior to me.
     
  19. Geo

    Geo Poster Extraordinaire

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    Many musician names I see credited on recordings now
    are folks I remember playing clubs and backing bands
    for artists back in the '70s and '80s.
    (Some were neighbors even.)
    Most did demos, etc. when not on the road and so on.
     
  20. DlxNashvilleLuvr

    DlxNashvilleLuvr Tele-Holic

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    In response to the notion that what you used to get was the band on the record...I was stunned to read recently that Joe Perry is actually nowhere on Aerosmith's "Get Your Wings" album. They used some session guy in Boston.

    Oh, and Jimmy Page claims that's him you're hearing on the Kinks' "You Really Got Me" and the Who's "Can't Explain."
     
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