Broadcaster or Telecaster style bridge pickup?

[Rob DiStefano]

Realize that many popular well known artists of the 60s right up thru today used Fender guitars with pickups that ran the gamut of treble tones and output, both true 50s vintage pickups to pickups made in this century.

Unless a pickup can be stuck into your guitar, with you playing, through your rig, buying pickups will always be a crap shoot of sorts.

Soundbytes might help, but put that into context with the above comment.

Having worked in the studio with many really stellar guitarists, the bottom line to "great pickup tone" lies in the brain and hands and chops of the guitarist, AND the recording engineers, and not so much about the pickups or other gear.

There are any number of ways to view electric guitars, the following are 4 categories that I list in my order of importance ...

1. playability - this trumps sound/tone, brand, shape, color, etc ... there is little value in a guitar that can't be made to play well for You.
2. sound - this is all about the pickups and what they feed onboard and offboard, and all can be changed to suit personal tastes.
3. aesthetics - shape, size, color, brand, model, etc ... feeling good about a guitar will almost always make one play better.
4. money - how much loot does a "good" guitar require, though some will make this a number 1 priority.

SO, to answer your question ...

"So if somebody were to say to You, "I want to play 60/70s rock, funk, and maybe some Texas blues on my Tele. What pickup should I buy from your store?" What would you recommend?"

... listen to the Cavalier soundbytes as they may get you in the ballpark for tone and output. You may find the Nashville Lion (bridge) and Lion King (neck) would work well for the music you wish to create ... or maybe not.

 

[USS-SpongeBob]

I'm in the camp of 'the difference is slightly exaggerated and either will do the job'.
I also think the amp, speaker and where you set the knobs will make a much bigger difference.

Yeah, that's totally fair. If they aren't too different then it probably isn't worth worrying over and I should just throw some DiMarzio Areas into my shopping cart and call it a day. My three Strats have grossly different pickups but they all sound basically like a Strat at the end of the day... and I usually pick which one I want to use based on which bridge I want to play with (hardtail, synchronized trem, or 2-point trem) more than which set of pickups I want to listen to.

 

[USS-SpongeBob]

... listen to the Cavalier soundbytes as they may get you in the ballpark for tone and output. You may find the Nashville Lion (bridge) and Lion King (neck) would work well for the music you wish to create ... or maybe not.

Ah, thank you! Can't believe I missed that link at the top of your front page. I'll check those out.

 

[somebodyelseuk]

Yeah, that's totally fair. If they aren't too different then it probably isn't worth worrying over and I should just throw some DiMarzio Areas into my shopping cart and call it a day. My three Strats have grossly different pickups but they all sound basically like a Strat at the end of the day... and I usually pick which one I want to use based on which bridge I want to play with (hardtail, synchronized trem, or 2-point trem) more than which set of pickups I want to listen to.

I think it's important to have a starting reference point, too.
The Di Marzios might be the answer to your prayers. Then again, they might not fit you, BUT at least you'll have 'a spec.' on that guitar, which a little knowledge and experience allows you to make an educated guess as to which direction to go, if necessary.

 

[USS-SpongeBob]

I think it's important to have a starting reference point, too.
The Di Marzios might be the answer to your prayers. Then again, they might not fit you, BUT at least you'll have 'a spec.' on that guitar, which a little knowledge and experience allows you to make an educated guess as to which direction to go, if necessary.

One of the things I'm trying to decide is whether to just buy off-the-shelf noiseless pickups, or to get custom hand-wound pickups so that both pickups have the same polarity and I can throw a low-Z dummy coil into the guitar to cancel noise (which I have done before with great success). The latter would require that I plan the routing for a big sneaky dummy coil ahead of time, though, which is marginally more work than just installing with noiseless pickups (or just living with noise).

 

[pbenn]

I'll go out on a limb, YMMV.

Alder body + RW neck + brass slugs is going in the darker direction.
Adding A3 to that mix is going darker still.

You might want to try steel slugs like the '68-82s before a pickup swap,
because IMO they brighten up a dark guitar.

Just like brass slugs thicken a too-thin ash body...

JMO

 

[somebodyelseuk]

One of the things I'm trying to decide is whether to just buy off-the-shelf noiseless pickups, or to get custom hand-wound pickups so that both pickups have the same polarity and I can throw a low-Z dummy coil into the guitar to cancel noise (which I have done before with great success). The latter would require that I plan the routing for a big sneaky dummy coil ahead of time, though, which is marginally more work than just installing with noiseless pickups (or just living with noise).

I think we're getting in to 'talk to a winder' territory.
My own 'two cents', noiseless pickups tend to get a 'bad rap', IMO because people treat them as single coils, and so fit them with 250k pots - I have a Strat Ultra with 'em. I played HSS Strats for three decades with stacked coil 'single', simple control wiring based on half the '50s Gibson layout, with 500k pots. I had none of the lack of top end that most complain of.
The Noiseless pickups in my Ultra are a similar spec to the PAF-a-likes in that Goldtop on the left - they are humbuckers, at the end of the day.
That said, relatively recently I had a set of handwound pickups put in a vintage style Strat. When I went back to my HSSs, the stacked coils seemed a bit muddy in comparison.
I don't use high levels of gain or tons of effects. The background noise doesn't bother me - it's a good reason for the singer to keep the 'banter' to a minimum.

 

[tugboat1980]

I would encourage anyone wondering what to get to go back and read, and re-read Rob's post #3, then watch Bill Kirchen in the video Jvin posted in #13..

The conclusion.. any quality pickup will do... all it takes his for "you" to stop thinking you can buy a specific sound... You cannot... well let me qualify, You can, but the price is time spent practicing, not $$$ spent at checkout...

Tone is a product of a guitarist's style, their technique, their overall ability... it is NOT a product of hardware..

If ya sat Robert Heinlein and Issac Asimov at identical typewriters... gave them identical characters and basic story lines... the resulting books would NOT read like... now would one be better if the author dropped the Type writer and got a high end computer.... it's also true if ya Gave Brian May and Eric Clapton identical guitars and told them to compose in the same key.. the music would not be identical. AND it would still sound like Brian, or Eric... Ya don't buy tone, you develop it..

Devil’s advocate. Eric Clapton sounded far different with the yardbirds than he did with John Mayall than he did with Cream than he did with the Dominoes than he did as a solo artist.

 

[banditpanda]

I would encourage anyone wondering what to get to go back and read, and re-read Rob's post #3, then watch Bill Kirchen in the video Jvin posted in #13..

The conclusion.. any quality pickup will do... all it takes his for "you" to stop thinking you can buy a specific sound... You cannot... well let me qualify, You can, but the price is time spent practicing, not $$$ spent at checkout...

Tone is a product of a guitarist's style, their technique, their overall ability... it is NOT a product of hardware..

If ya sat Robert Heinlein and Issac Asimov at identical typewriters... gave them identical characters and basic story lines... the resulting books would NOT read like... now would one be better if the author dropped the Type writer and got a high end computer.... it's also true if ya Gave Brian May and Eric Clapton identical guitars and told them to compose in the same key.. the music would not be identical. AND it would still sound like Brian, or Eric... Ya don't buy tone, you develop it..

Hardware IS part of the equation.

 

[Rob DiStefano]

Devil’s advocate. Eric Clapton sounded far different with the yardbirds than he did with John Mayall than he did with Cream than he did with the Dominoes than he did as a solo artist.

Y'all do realize that HOW a rig is setup and HOW it's all recorded has a HUGE impact on recordings? Dittos for how rigs are setup at concerts.

 

[Rob DiStefano]

Hardware IS part of the equation.

Yes, and that depends on what hardware is in the signal chain and how it's used.

In the case of pickups, their tone is fully at the mercy of what they feed, besides a guitarist's brain, fingers, and chops.

 

[Maguchi]

Heyo, long time guitarist / builder here making my first foray into the land of Tele tone. I've never had one in my excessive guitar collection so I've decided to head out to the workshop to remedy that situation. Gonna have an alder body, maple neck, rosewood fingerboard, Gotoh steel ashtray with 3-barrel brass in-tune saddles, vintage style Gotoh tuners, 25.5" scale length and bolt-on neck joint, yada yada yada. Nothing too too weird for a Tele, as far as material and hardware specs go, but I'm a bit stumped when it comes to pickups. See, most of my exposure to Tele tones is from recordings rather than first-hand experience playing Teles... specifically, it's from rock and funk recordings, and practically zero country except for Johnny Cash. This leads to my conundrum:

I don't know enough about Tele tone to know whether I should put a Broadcaster-styled (Alnico 3, 43AWG wire) or Telecaster-styled (Alnico 5, 42AWG wiring) bridge pickup into my guitar.

I understand what the comparative difference is going to be tonally between those different magnet and wire combinations, but I don't know which style is going to make me go "that's the Tele tone I recognize from my record collection." I just want to be able to plug in to my Deluxe, AC30, or 20w Plexi and go "yup, this sounds the way recording studios have convinced us a Tele should sound."

If you were in this situation and wanted to include ONE Tele in a broader collection of guitars, ONE Tele that did the Tele job really well and didn't need to stand in for a Strat or some other guitar in a pinch, ONE Tele that would make you go "dang that's a tasty Tele" every time you play it... would you go for a Blackguard/Broadcaster bridge pickup or a 60s-style bridge pickup? Is an old A3 pickup going to be too dull to cut the mustard playing funk rhythms? Is a brighter A5 pickup going to be too shrill for stuff like Zeppelin or The Police? Is the difference vastly over-exaggerated and either style will do nicely?

(I don't need specific model or brand recommendations... I've already read oodles of threads on that topic. Just need insight into the Blackguard vs Whiteguard paradigm.)
(Edit: Yes, I asked basically the same question in the Welcome forum too, but this is probably a better spot to get answers, I would assume...)

Get a "Broadcaster/No'Caster" type pickup. They sound the best in my opinion.

 

[banditpanda]

Y'all do realize that HOW a rig is setup and HOW it's all recorded has a HUGE impact on recordings? Dittos for how rigs are setup at concerts.

Indeed and that's why, when I, for example, wish to emulate a particular " sound " I shoot for the live sound as opposed to a studio sound.

 

[David PNW]

Follow-up to my original question, to clarify what I'm after. I'm not asking "what do you think will be the perfect bridge pickup for USS-SpongeBob" (because yes, that's going to take some research and experimentation, I know that!)... Rather, I want to know:

If you had to live with one vintage-styled Tele in your guitar collection, would you be on Team Broadcaster (A3/43AWG, higher DCR) or on Team 60s (A5/42AWG, lower DCR)? (And why?)

I have different Telecasters, all with different pickups, but if I had to choose just one to do about any type of music, I would pick the Fender NoCaster pickups for all around great sound, to complement rock, jazz, country and Pop music.

Fender Nocaster pickups are true to their heritage; created with the original design in mind to accurately mimic the twang and shimmer of the original Nocaster guitar. These period-correct single-coil pickups impart tight low end and clear, balanced midrange.
DC Resistance
Neck Pickup: 7.1K, Bridge Pickup: 7.18K
Magnet Type
Alnico 3
Magnet Wire
Enamel-coated
Bobbin Material
Fiber

 

[Ronkirn]

Not to be a nudge... but... "Fender Nocaster pickups are true to their heritage; created with the original design in mind". On what Planet??

DC Resistance varies with the room's temperature, so at what temperature was the originals measured? NOtr to mention there is ZERO Direct Current in a Nocaster or any caster...
Magnet type, Magnets are made a completely different way than those of the 50's..
Magnet wire, the alloy is different, the make up of the Enamel is chemically different... most of the "stuff" the Enamel of the 50's was composed from is banned today.
Bobbin Material, while similar, it to is made differently..

r

 

[telemnemonics]

@USS-SpongeBob never let us know if a choice was made, maybe still out in the woodshed milling lumber?
While I agree both the 1950 spec and the post 54 or so modern spec sound like a tele, I prefer the later A5 42 wound up to around 7k and oddly suggest the OP buy an OV bridge for like $60 as reference starting point.

Also most who do not play a Tele are alarmed by the cutting tone, so the OV which is A3 and not 43 but 42awg and a little over 7k is a warmer tone for the new tele player.

 

[telemnemonics]

Not to be a nudge... but... "Fender Nocaster pickups are true to their heritage; created with the original design in mind". On what Planet??

DC Resistance varies with the room's temperature, so at what temperature was the originals measured? NOtr to mention there is ZERO Direct Current in a Nocaster or any caster...
Magnet type, Magnets are made a completely different way than those of the 50's..
Magnet wire, the alloy is different, the make up of the Enamel is chemically different... most of the "stuff" the Enamel of the 50's was composed from is banned today.
Bobbin Material, while similar, it to is made differently..

r

Fender, AKA mythology!

 

[David PNW]

Not to be a nudge... but... "Fender Nocaster pickups are true to their heritage; created with the original design in mind". On what Planet??

DC Resistance varies with the room's temperature, so at what temperature was the originals measured? NOtr to mention there is ZERO Direct Current in a Nocaster or any caster...
Magnet type, Magnets are made a completely different way than those of the 50's..
Magnet wire, the alloy is different, the make up of the Enamel is chemically different... most of the "stuff" the Enamel of the 50's was composed from is banned today.
Bobbin Material, while similar, it to is made differently..

r

On Fender sites PLANET. Word according to Fender! Typically Fender does not put out fake news, so it is up to you to believe what they say, or disagree. https://www.fender.com/en-US/parts/...p-51-nocaster-tele-pickup-set/0992109000.html

 

[robt57]

Not to be a nudge... but... "Fender Nocaster pickups are true to their heritage; created with the original design in mind". On what Planet??

DC Resistance varies with the room's temperature, so at what temperature was the originals measured? NOtr to mention there is ZERO Direct Current in a Nocaster or any caster...
Magnet type, Magnets are made a completely different way than those of the 50's..
Magnet wire, the alloy is different, the make up of the Enamel is chemically different... most of the "stuff" the Enamel of the 50's was composed from is banned today.
Bobbin Material, while similar, it to is made differently..

r

I think I'll el kabong my self with my EMG Tele after reading that..

 

[willietheweirdo]

Man, there are records where I can't tell whether I'm hearing a tele bridge pickup and the guitarist is picking over the neck, or I'm hearing the neck pickup and he's picking right in front of the saddles. Then I find out it's a Les Paul copy or a Rick.

"C'est la vie," say the old folks, it goes to show you never can tell.

There really are a lot of variables in the signal path. While we are fussing over the best knife grind, someone is getting it done with scissors!