Bridge saddles too far from neck to intonate properly?!

Discussion in 'Tele Home Depot' started by mcarroll, Apr 30, 2019.

  1. Tonetele

    Tonetele Poster Extraordinaire

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    Correction- 12th. fret looks okay, hard to say as it's in 1/10ths "
    Why are the saddles at or close to 26"?
    Was it the placement of the through holes that made you put it there?
    You may have to buy a Wilkinson 3 way Compensated bridge and still maybe have to top load that or , as has been suggested, a 3 way saddle system. Still that's a mighty big difference ( 1/2 ") on your existing guitar. I suggest a top- loader at the correct 25.51" ( that's 647.9mm.)
     
  2. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Whatever the reason and there may be several, it does indeed look like the neck heel is not all the way in to the pocket, but the OP couldn't see the gap because of the 22nd fret overhang.
    The difference is enough that holes will need to be plugged and re drilled, preferably the ones that were drilled in the wrong place which is likely to be the neck.
    Too bad but if it's close to 1/4" difference the new holes won't be in the dowel plugs and should be in solid wood. Still weakens the neck heel but we learns from our mistakes!

    The bridge still looks oddly not far enough into the pickguard to me, but since others have pointed out the neck placement I agree that's the clearer problem that needs fixing.
    So just say no to longer screws and put the neck where it belongs!

    WRT the GFS body that @SecretSquirrel is having trouble with, that seems to be one of their features.
    With a Strat trem rout I'd agree there that moving the bari neck in a bit is better than moving the bridge.
    That would mean two sets of plugged holes for a total of 12 holes in the body for neck mounting! Bummer but worse stuff happens...

    OTOH a body is under $100 and makes good fire wood.
    Thick poly finishes are toxic to breath though, so no marshmallows!
     
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  3. Tonetele

    Tonetele Poster Extraordinaire

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    Correction- 12th. fret looks okay, hard to say as it's in 1/10ths " From my Imperial Measurements, yes we learned that here in Oz before Metrics, was always in 12ths. or 16th. 32nds and 64ths of an inch Why are the saddles at or close to 26"?
    Was it the placement of the through holes that made you put it there?
    You may have to buy a Wilkinson 3 way Compensated bridge and still maybe have to top load that or , as has been suggested, a 3 way saddle system Still that's a mighty big difference ( 25.51" or 647.9mm).
    Your bottom E is at 26" that's a lot out ( about 1/2") - but you know that.
    OR the neck could be the factor here , but i don't think so, your photos are accurate. Bridge/Saddle placement is the factor here.
    You may have to get another bridge and topload it. Jim Campolongo's Tele is a top loader ( 1959 I think).
    Top loaders still sound good as long as the other components are good and yours looks like a nice guitar. Love the humbucker in front.
    Buzzgrowls suggestion may be correct but 1/2" error is a lot out. Sorry. I wish you the best.
     
  4. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I agree the neck is fine and is a 25 1/2" scale. The discrepancy could easily be the printed lines on the not at al precision quality rule used for the measurement.

    Looks like the saddles are sort of set as if in the typical pattern we see when a guitar has its intonation set, but the rule is next to the furthest back saddle, where others are closer to the neck and at the end of screw threads.
    If the neck moves into the pocket 1/4" it should get the saddles closer enough to intonate properly. I get up to 25 5/8" or even 25 11/16" intonates the low strings.

    Since we don't know for sure where all the parts came from, could be the saddles or screws are not original to the bridge plate, and we're not even sure if the bridge might be a Chinese knockoff.

    The world is full of iffy cheap parts, some of which work fine while others give us fits and keep the TDPRI in topics to discuss!
     
  5. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity Vendor Member

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  6. viking

    viking Friend of Leo's

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    Yup , my guess too , wrong bridge
     
  7. LutherBurger

    LutherBurger Friend of Leo's

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    He did answer. He said it doesn't.

    I don't know what's going on in the neck pocket because I can't see it, but the neck's frets and markers don't appear to line up with reference points on the body (edges, screw holes) the way they do on my MIM. That shall remain a mystery to me until we hear more from @mcarroll.

    Another issue: the bridge doesn't seem to match MIM Standard or Gotoh bridges. It's the same length, but the screw holes, the pickup hole, and the string-through holes are all farther forward on it, so the whole thing sits slightly farther back on the body.

    EDIT: I did some searching, and I think that's a Fender "Deluxe Nashville Tele" bridge.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2019
  8. TRexF16

    TRexF16 Friend of Leo's Vendor Member

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    As Lutherburger said, hearing back from the OP is important. We've put forward about all the advice he can stand at this point (probably a lot more). I have seen several things posted that are (IMO) incorrect. Though the OP included some great photos, there is not any more that can be deduced until the neck and pickguard comes off and he has a chance to check the neck pocket measurements and pickguard orientation that have been provided. There have been lots of good observations indicating the problem area might lie there. IMO, here is all we actually know:
    1) The through holes for the ferrules are in pretty darn close to the exact right place for a vintage bridge, so I don't think the bridge is improperly placed.
    2) The neck is just under 1/16" shy of 12.75" at the center of the 12th fret, so it should be close enough to a 25.5" scale. Worst case it might be a 25 3/8" scale if we doubled the error at the 12th fret. That is unfortunately, worsening the required bridge location but not enough that it oughtn't to be workable.
    3) Multiple metrics indicate the neck might not be as deep into the neck pocket as it ought to be - we still don't know why and won't until the OP gets it pulled off and does some looking.

    Looking forward to the solution.
    Cheers,
    Rex
     
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  9. mcarroll

    mcarroll TDPRI Member

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    I HAVE NEWS!

    I took off the neck last night and YOU GUYS WERE RIGHT. The neck was not all the way into the neck pocket and there was a 1/4" gap.

    [​IMG]

    I remember now that when I installed the neck months ago (then dropped the project), I noticed that when I fully inserted the neck the screw holes didn't line up. I guess I wasn't thinking clearly and just adjusted the neck to match the screw holes, thinking I was doing something wrong by pushing the neck all the way in.

    [​IMG]

    I will double check that I don't need to dremel down the pickguard where it meets the neck before re-installing it.

    I dry fitted the neck and it looks like the scale length when a saddle screw is fully extended is at 25.5, so I believe it should be able to intonate now once the neck is installed properly. If it doesn't, longer screws should be able to work.

    After I discovered this issue last night, I spent a couple hours reading ALLLllll about dowels, wood glue, epoxy, tooth picks etc. There's quite the controversy in the forums about what kind of fix is best. I ended up filling the holes with bbq skewers and wood epoxy this morning.

    Thank you again everyone for your advice and insight. I could just buy a new guitar but I want to know how to fix and set up my guitars myself. This has been fun. Brace yourself for my new thread in a few days about why my volume control isn't working.
     
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  10. ale.istotle

    ale.istotle TDPRI Member

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    Glad you got it sorted. Enjoy the project. I'm sure someone will advise the right drill bit for the screws so you don't split the neck. Don't for get to wax the screws so you don't get them stuck or twist the heads off.
     
    middy likes this.
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