Brass vs Steel tremblock....quite a difference...

[bluesholyman]

So, I suppose on some level this is a subjective thing, but I had put a brass trem block in a 2004 MIM strat that had the standard mexican one - potted or whatever it is - that dull grey looking thing.

After upgrading pickups to SD Scooped, the guitar sounded very "pingy" to me - the highs were overly accentuated and seemed quite unnatural....for a strat at least...moreso than is normal for a strat to be bright like that. So I did some digging and found a few other comments about brass being "pingy" and bought a solid steel trem block on Amazon (Musiclily brand.)

After installing it, the strat sounded much less pingy and more traditionally strat-like, whith the kind of bell tones I was expecting. I was actually surprised to see how much of a difference it was as so many people suggest there is no tonal difference. I imagine a lot of things can affect that, especially the pickups.

As far as I am concerned, there is a very noticeable difference between brass and steel trem blocks. As a side note, every PRS I have seen that has a trem block has a brass trem block in it. It has got me wondering if this is the reason I generally don't care for the sound of PRS guitars, at least most of the ones I have tried and played.

YMMV.

 

[Grandfunkfan]

I'm sure the scooped sd's had the most influence over the change in tone. Usually strats are naturally lacking mids already and guys are trying to get mids from em with pedals. What's the deal with a scooped pickup?

 

[dukewellington]

I have a Player strat, MIM, that someone modified with a Mojotone quiet coil pickups, some aftermarket bridge, brass saddles, five springs, and a brass block. It’s set up to lay flat with the neck almost dead flat. I love it, but something about it never sat 100% right with me. Not sure if it’s the bridge, block, saddles or pickups. But it is a honk machine. It still has that transparent, floaty strat sound, but it’s real grindy in the mids — high notes have that curious ping you described. Stays in tune like nobody’s business. The sustain is somewhat diminished compared to other strats I have. So many damn variables in strat setup and design! I’m not really sure where to start making any changes to make it sound more like what I want.

 

[Billy3]

And then you will wake up in a week thinking Should I put the other one back in? Keep on picking and tinkering!

 

[fender4life]

This is the thing a lot of people don't realize till they do parts swaps like that....the hardware like the wood can make huge differences to the good or bad, depending on what is good or bad to you of course. A guitar's tone is a sum of it's parts and the hardware and woo d all contribute to the vibrational pattern of the string. The pickups affect EQ and output, but they really don't alter the guitar's basic voice that is created by all those parts. Thats why when someone posts about a guitar that sounds bad they often try many pickups only to find the best they get from that is improvement that only makes it less bad instead of fixing the issue. Some parts make less of a different than others but strat blocks are a big one. Brass is one of the few i haven't tried, 9fora reason) but i've tried many zinc and steel ones and even among the same material you get a lot of variation. For example, my fav is callaham steel but i have tried other steel blocks that sound totally different. One of them, the GFS steel sounded so harsh i would rather use zinc. Then again, some zinc like the ones in the older (stadard MIMs...pre "player" MIMs) MIM standards are horrible and dull and lifeless as hell.

The callaham is IMO hard to beat. Some say it;s bright and it IS, but the truth is strats ARE bright and it's just allowing the strat to put out whats there. When you try a callaham you have to use it for a time till you start to understand how to compensate best for it with your tone controls and amp settings etc etc. I used to find mine a bit too much but once i realized that it allows so much more of the strat's natural liveliness and detail come thru and came to understand that those details would still come thru once i compensate for the brightness i ended up with the best strat sounds i ever had I was ALMOST one of the many who thought the trem was too bright and gave up on it. But i held onto it and in time i came to love the callaham and i now I even get great full sound even with an ash body strat. Best strat sound i ever gotten.

The thing about a strat to my ear at least is that they ARE bright guitars naturally and if you try and cure that with pickups and hardware you're dulling that natural thing that makes it a strat. For me the way is to embrace what a strat is and use your amp and guitar controls to tame it rather than kill it with hardware pickups wood etc to dul the top end. If you do then you lose that sound you hear on record that made you love strats to begin with. In simpe terms, let the strat be it's bright self and tame it AFTER it's signal leaves the output jack. Thats just what i find, YMMV but it worked for me to get the strat sound i have always strived for. And the callaham is a huge art of that.

 

[Brent Hutto]

I'm still a relative newcomer to Strats but when y'all talk about the tone differences in things like trem blocks and saddles, am I right that none of those will change that springy, boing-boing sound that my Strat seems to have? Or is that the sound you're trying to reduce with a brass block or whatever?

My only experience with electric guitars before getting a Strat last Christmas were a hardtail S-type (with humbuckers) and a Telecaster. Even after playing the Strat nearly every day for six months I still notice that bright, bouncy sound that comes right after the attack of each note.

 

[Swirling Snow]

So, I suppose on some level this is a subjective thing, but I had put a brass trem block in a 2004 MIM strat that had the standard mexican one - potted or whatever it is - that dull grey looking thing.

After upgrading pickups to SD Scooped, the guitar sounded very "pingy" to me - the highs were overly accentuated and seemed quite unnatural....for a strat at least...moreso than is normal for a strat to be bright like that. So I did some digging and found a few other comments about brass being "pingy" and bought a solid steel trem block on Amazon (Musiclily brand.)

After installing it, the strat sounded much less pingy and more traditionally strat-like, whith the kind of bell tones I was expecting. I was actually surprised to see how much of a difference it was as so many people suggest there is no tonal difference. I imagine a lot of things can affect that, especially the pickups.

As far as I am concerned, there is a very noticeable difference between brass and steel trem blocks. As a side note, every PRS I have seen that has a trem block has a brass trem block in it. It has got me wondering if this is the reason I generally don't care for the sound of PRS guitars, at least most of the ones I have tried and played.

YMMV.

Color me confused... by your own account, the guitar sounded "pingy" after the pickup change, but your didn't change the pickups to fix it.

Strats are supposed to sound steely. Leo gave them a "trem" so they could imitate a pedal steel. But I prefer them loaded with brass.

Might be my wasted youth, playing Gibsons all the time. I still use a Marshall, so that might filter things quite a bit.

 

[schmee]

I'm still a relative newcomer to Strats but when y'all talk about the tone differences in things like trem blocks and saddles, am I right that none of those will change that springy, boing-boing sound that my Strat seems to have? Or is that the sound you're trying to reduce with a brass block or whatever?

My only experience with electric guitars before getting a Strat last Christmas were a hardtail S-type (with humbuckers) and a Telecaster. Even after playing the Strat nearly every day for six months I still notice that bright, bouncy sound that comes right after the attack of each note.

I think most guitars "are what they are". That may even be just the individual example of a particular model and not true of other identical models. I've not found bridges, nuts etc to make much difference when swapped out. There are perceived tiny differences.
I think with most things regarding electric guitars, Speakers, tubes, pickups, bridge material, nuts etc ......you cant compare them in video or sitting in your music room. You have to play a gig, or a couple hours, with others, in the mix, and then ascertain the difference.
I tried a multitude of bridges on my archtop a couple years back. The only one I think I could hear any difference in was an aluminum Bigsby bridge. And that was minimal.

 

[Brent Hutto]

I think most guitars "are what they are". That may even be just the individual example of a particular model and not true of other identical models. I've not found bridges, nuts etc to make much difference when swapped out. There are perceived tiny differences.
I think with most things regarding electric guitars, Speakers, tubes, pickups, bridge material, nuts etc ......you cant compare them in video or sitting in your music room. You have to play a gig, or a couple hours, with others, in the mix, and then ascertain the difference.
I tried a multitude of bridges on my archtop a couple years back. The only one I think I could hear any difference in was an aluminum Bigsby bridge. And that was minimal.

I think when I was shopping for Strats in the guitar store (played through a bunch of them) they all had that springy sound to some extent. And the one I ended up buying didn't stand out as special in that way, although I like the sound of it best overall.

But like you say, when I got home and plugged into my usual dirt boxes, delays, amps, etc. it was more noteceable. My first temptation was to start dialing that boing-boing out of the sound and make it sound more like my Telecaster. It took me a week or two to lean into it and realize I wanted more boing-boing and not less. So I've probably ended up dialing in more of it!

The only change I've made to the guitar is putting block (stainless) steel saddles instead of the incredibly annoying and disfunctional bent steel things that were on there from the factory. I think maybe that evened the tone out across the strings a bit but it didn't change the essential voice of the guitar at all to my ears.

 

[schmee]

I think when I was shopping for Strats in the guitar store (played through a bunch of them) they all had that springy sound to some extent. And the one I ended up buying didn't stand out as special in that way, although I like the sound of it best overall.
But like you say, when I got home and plugged into my usual dirt boxes, delays, amps, etc. it was more noteceable. My first temptation was to start dialing that boing-boing out of the sound and make it sound more like my Telecaster. It took me a week or two to lean into it and realize I wanted more boing-boing and not less. So I've probably ended up dialing in more of it!
The only change I've made to the guitar is putting block (stainless) steel saddles instead of the incredibly annoying and disfunctional bent steel things that were on there from the factory. I think maybe that evened the tone out across the strings a bit but it didn't change the essential voice of the guitar at all to my ears.

I prefer those, mostly for the 3 x height adjustment thread length instead of thin sheet metal and the non rusting feature.

 

[Lou Tencodpees]

I tried a brass block once and while I can't quite articulate what the difference was my ears told me there was one. I had an issue with the guitar returning to pitch when using the floating trem and could not figure it out despite all the usual things. I put a steel block back in and no more problems, so in the bin the brass block sits.

 

[bluesholyman]

I'm sure the scooped sd's had the most influence over the change in tone. Usually strats are naturally lacking mids already and guys are trying to get mids from em with pedals. What's the deal with a scooped pickup?

I"ve always liked Mayer's tone from Continuum and Try!....so I wanted to get closer to that sound, largely because of John's guitar having miswound pickups that gave it a more scooped sound.

Color me confused... by your own account, the guitar sounded "pingy" after the pickup change, but your didn't change the pickups to fix it.

This "ping" didn't come from the pickups themselves - at least of all the demos/recordings of these pickups I have heard, that "ping" wasn't present, so I attributed it to something else.

After switching over to the steel block, the strat was to me more stat-like and that particular "ping" was far less emphasized.

And then you will wake up in a week thinking Should I put the other one back in? Keep on picking and tinkering!

No doubt.

 

[arlum]

Maybe I'm weird and possibly wrong but I've always found Strats with steel blocks to both be brighter and sustain longer. My current guitars with trems all have steel blocks.

 

[gwjensen]

I'm sure the scooped sd's had the most influence over the change in tone. Usually strats are naturally lacking mids already and guys are trying to get mids from em with pedals. What's the deal with a scooped pickup?

I think Strats sound good through mid-rich amps. My Strat through my tweed twin amp is a marriage made in heaven.

 

[wabashslim]

Maybe I'm weird and possibly wrong but I've always found Strats with steel blocks to both be brighter and sustain longer. My current guitars with trems all have steel blocks.

Amen to that. I put a Callaham in a mid-80's ESP 300 Series Strat & it really evened out all the notes - fixed the dead spots up & down the neck and made it gigworthy. Better & cheaper than new pickups. I've been building cheapy partscasters lately but I always give them all-steel tails to make them a little less cheapy.

 

[Blackmore Fan]

....the hardware like the wood can make huge differences to the good or bad...

Uh...its an *electric* guitar.

 

[trandy9850]

On one of my Strat builds I used a K-T-S Titanium trem block…it was incredibly expensive ($225.00)… but it made the guitar sound glorious.

Then I officially became an idiot and sold that guitar…I regret it to this day.

 

[Lonn]

Anything is possible. I've tried just about every trem block out there and never heard a difference between any of them, even the cheap old thin Fender ones.

 

[fender4life]

Uh...its an *electric* guitar.

Uh yeah, i know.