Brand new WGS G10C/S buzzing/vibrating on low notes; what gives?

[RoscoeElegante]

Hey, all.

I'm finally finishing up converting a 1936 Silvertone floor radio into a kinda-cheating "amp" of an Ibanez TSA15H head + new baffle + new speaker cloth + new speaker. Long hiatus on this project, but eager to finish it now that I've finally carved out time to do so.

The TSA offers very full, sweet cleans (if you keep its treble low). And the WGS G10C/S sounds lovely, even though it's stiffishly new--except if/until I play an open low E note, or a low F, or a low G. Then it really flubs out. It's not natural overdrive (and I didn't have the Tubescreamer on, which is a very different sound, anyway). It's genuine flub. Definition collapses into buzzy mush. Doesn't sound like over-driven tubes, as the amp visibly vibrates differently--more at its outer rings--when this occurs.

This is volume dependent, starting at about 10 o'clock on the Volume knob. Very apparent at the head's 5W setting, worse at its 15W, and worse yet if the boost is also engaged. The amp isn't all that loud when it begins, so it's not like I'm really pushing things to generate the problem.

FWIW, I was using a Jazzmaster to test things, and had the speaker both on its back on a thick book set on the hardwood floor, and on its side (propped up tightly). Same results, and no, it wasn't at all the floor or anything else vibrating. And my Jazzmaster doesn't flub out any other speaker I've used it with.

So what gives? Will the flub resolve as the speaker breaks in--but isn't that supposed to work the other way, with weary rather than new speakers being the ones prone to flub? Or will the flub disappear once the speaker is mounted in the baffle and the baffle mounted into the radio's body (the physics of that, BTW, would escape me)?

Dummy that I am, I don't have/know where I put the invoice for this speaker, and I bought it maybe two years ago, too. So am I stuck w/ a lemon here?

 

[Chunkocaster]

Sounds like the speaker might have been dropped and the voice coil is rubbing.
If it is it will stop working at some point when it heats up. The basket can sometimes be tweaked to try and stop it rubbing or the cone can be reinstalled after realigning so it doesn't rub. The magnet can also be moved slightly which could stop the rubbing.

 

[RoscoeElegante]

Sounds like the speaker might have been dropped and the voice coil is rubbing.

Thanks for your reply, Chunkocaster. Any cure for this, or is it shot? Would be a shame if it is, even apart from the wasted $ factor, as it seems a quality-made speaker....

 

[Chunkocaster]

Thanks for your reply, Chunkocaster. Any cure for this, or is it shot? Would be a shame if it is, even apart from the wasted $ factor, as it seems a quality-made speaker....

There are a few videos on YouTube that show a couple of fixes. I would get it checked out first incase i'm wrong. Hard to tell without hearing it myself. Try moving the cone from the rear and see if it rubs.

I bought a wgs speaker about a year ago and it arrived with the same issues. It was the voice coil rubbing and was probably due to damage during shipping. I haven't tried to fix it yet but more than likely a re cone will be needed.

 

[strat a various]

Hey, all.

I'm finally finishing up converting a 1936 Silvertone floor radio into a kinda-cheating "amp" of an Ibanez TSA15H head + new baffle + new speaker cloth + new speaker. Long hiatus on this project, but eager to finish it now that I've finally carved out time to do so.

The TSA offers very full, sweet cleans (if you keep its treble low). And the WGS G10C/S sounds lovely, even though it's stiffishly new--except if/until I play an open low E note, or a low F, or a low G. Then it really flubs out. It's not natural overdrive (and I didn't have the Tubescreamer on, which is a very different sound, anyway). It's genuine flub. Definition collapses into buzzy mush. Doesn't sound like over-driven tubes, as the amp visibly vibrates differently--more at its outer rings--when this occurs.

This is volume dependent, starting at about 10 o'clock on the Volume knob. Very apparent at the head's 5W setting, worse at its 15W, and worse yet if the boost is also engaged. The amp isn't all that loud when it begins, so it's not like I'm really pushing things to generate the problem.

FWIW, I was using a Jazzmaster to test things, and had the speaker both on its back on a thick book set on the hardwood floor, and on its side (propped up tightly). Same results, and no, it wasn't at all the floor or anything else vibrating. And my Jazzmaster doesn't flub out any other speaker I've used it with.

So what gives? Will the flub resolve as the speaker breaks in--but isn't that supposed to work the other way, with weary rather than new speakers being the ones prone to flub? Or will the flub disappear once the speaker is mounted in the baffle and the baffle mounted into the radio's body (the physics of that, BTW, would escape me)?

Dummy that I am, I don't have/know where I put the invoice for this speaker, and I bought it maybe two years ago, too. So am I stuck w/ a lemon here?

I've had this happen to me a couple times. Unfortunately, in my experience, those sounds you describe indicate a damaged speaker. This is what I'd try, though:

Mount the speaker in a different cab, even if you have to cobble together a quickie box with a 10" hole in it. You want to be absolutely certain that the faux-radio isn't vibrating and fooling you.

Next, last ditch attempt ... turn the speaker upside down. I've seen speakers that had a voice coil rub react to being inverted by allowing the weight of the motor parts to pull the coil into alignment via gravity. I had a Yamaha cab that could be used normally upside down, but rubbed horribly right side up.

It may be repairable, depends how much you feel like learning about fixing speakers or how much you want to pay a reconer. I'd replace it.

 

[RoscoeElegante]

Thanks again, Chunkocaster. I was just watching exactly those two videos. Fixing this thing would be beyond my faith in my fingers. Can a decent tech do it, or is that not worth the cost? Would WGS be helpful, or am I way beyond that, purchase-date-wise? Aggravating, for sure!

 

[RoscoeElegante]

I've had this happen to me a couple times. Unfortunately, in my experience, those sounds you describe indicate a damaged speaker. This is what I'd try, though:

Mount the speaker in a different cab, even if you have to cobble together a quickie box with a 10" hole in it. You want to be absolutely certain that the faux-radio isn't vibrating and fooling you.

Next, last ditch attempt ... turn the speaker upside down. I've seen speakers that had a voice coil rub react to being inverted by allowing the weight of the motor parts to pull the coil into alignment via gravity. I had a Yamaha cab that could be used normally upside down, but rubbed horribly right side up.

It may be repairable, depends how much you feel like learning about fixing speakers or how much you want to pay a reconer. I'd replace it.

Thanks, strat. But I didn't yet mount it. I just tried it out laying flat, facing upward, and also propped securely at a slightly upward-facing angle.....

Will do re: turning it upside down.

 

[Chunkocaster]

Thanks again, Chunkocaster. I was just watching exactly those two videos. Fixing this thing would be beyond my faith in my fingers. Can a decent tech do it, or is that not worth the cost? Would WGS be helpful, or am I way beyond that, purchase-date-wise? Aggravating, for sureQ

I would price a recone kit for it but I would try fix it myself first because if it fails then you are just back to paying someone if you don't want to install the new cone yourself. It's not that hard to do, if you want to pay someone to install the new cone I would call around for a local guy with a good reputation and cheap rates. Is it rubbing when you move the cone by hand?

 

[strat a various]

Thanks, strat. But I didn't yet mount it. I just tried it out laying flat, facing upward, and also propped securely at a slightly upward-facing angle.....

Will do re: turning it upside down.

I wouldn't expect a speaker to operate properly unless it was mounted on a baffle in a cabinet. They aren't designed to work normally just sitting around. It may work OK once you get it in the cab.

 

[RoscoeElegante]

I would price a recone kit for it but I would try fix it myself first because if it fails then you are just back to paying someone if you don't want to install the new cone yourself. It's not that hard to do, if you want to pay someone to install the new cone I would call around for a local guy with a good reputation and cheap rates. Is it rubbing when you move the cone by hand?

I didn't detect that. Sounds healthy to the touch. Got it facing downward for the night. Read a few online suggestions to play it that way, too, to try to jostle/free up the coil to align itself properly. Can't hurt, I guess, so that'll be tomorrow's try. Then I'll put it in the baffle and cab and see if it plays properly. Really hope it does. It's a great match for the head and cab. Aside from the flub when pushed on those deep notes, very smooth sounding even though not yet broken in.

 

[strat a various]

I didn't detect that. Sounds healthy to the touch. Got it facing downward for the night. Read a few online suggestions to play it that way, too, to try to jostle/free up the coil to align itself properly. Can't hurt, I guess, so that'll be tomorrow's try. Then I'll put it in the baffle and cab and see if it plays properly. Really hope it does. It's a great match for the head and cab. Aside from the flub when pushed on those deep notes, very smooth sounding even though not yet broken in.

Also, you already know this ... careful not to tighten the screws down too tight. A warp in the frame will mess up the voice coil.

 

[Milspec]

Personally, I think it might be the amp or just a case of too much gain.

I sold a Blues Jr. a month ago with a vintage alnico speaker that did the same thing. To get the dude off my back, I replaced it with a new Texas Heat speaker....same result. It sure sounded like a bad speaker, but unless they just both happen to bad, the problem was coming from the amp. The solution in that case was to back off the "throttle" a bit by reducing the gain and drive. He was using active pickups through a boost pedal in front of that amp and it was just too much for it at high volumes.

I used that 10 c/s speaker in an old Gibson Skylark and found it to be a very nice speaker. WGS builds a great speaker and find it difficult to believe that they sold you a lemon. Do you have another speaker that you can swap out to test it?

 

[Chunkocaster]

I didn't detect that. Sounds healthy to the touch. Got it facing downward for the night. Read a few online suggestions to play it that way, too, to try to jostle/free up the coil to align itself properly. Can't hurt, I guess, so that'll be tomorrow's try. Then I'll put it in the baffle and cab and see if it plays properly. Really hope it does. It's a great match for the head and cab. Aside from the flub when pushed on those deep notes, very smooth sounding even though not yet broken in.

Hopefully it sorts itself out when you mount it. If it is the coil rubbing you should be able to hear it scratching on one side when you press the cone in and out. Good luck with it.

 

[RoscoeElegante]

Personally, I think it might be the amp or just a case of too much gain.

I sold a Blues Jr. a month ago with a vintage alnico speaker that did the same thing. To get the dude off my back, I replaced it with a new Texas Heat speaker....same result. It sure sounded like a bad speaker, but unless they just both happen to bad, the problem was coming from the amp. The solution in that case was to back off the "throttle" a bit by reducing the gain and drive. He was using active pickups through a boost pedal in front of that amp and it was just too much for it at high volumes.

I used that 10 c/s speaker in an old Gibson Skylark and found it to be a very nice speaker. WGS builds a great speaker and find it difficult to believe that they sold you a lemon. Do you have another speaker that you can swap out to test it?

Yes, I do. Thanks for suggesting that that. I was so peeved that it didn't occur to me to try a different speaker, which I'll do in a bit. I have to (!) spend some time redesigning the logic-teaching part of my frosh Composition courses first. I'll add this to the very long list of Dumb Omissions I confess when encouraging my students to improve their problem-solving.

 

[ponce]

Bit off topic but that speaker was a pure mud in my Peavey Classic 30. Not a single treble frequency from it.

 

[Milspec]

Bit off topic but that speaker was a pure mud in my Peavey Classic 30. Not a single treble frequency from it.

That was the point of that speaker really. Not "mud" but taming too much treble that exists in some amps...like just about every vintage Gibson for example when running single coils. It sounded fantastic in my early '60's Gibson amps.

 

[schmee]

It sounds a lot like a voice coil rub, but it could very well be the nature of that old radio amp though. I'm unclear what you did to make th amp though. Many of those old amps are very nasty when pushed , especially on the low notes. Attach a different speaker and see.

 

[bftfender]

we a/b'd WGS g10cs & Jupiter 10sc for the speakers in my 74 Super Reverb until we were crazy....(i believe WGS makes Jupiter also) the jupiter retained classic Fender but did not flub in comparison..i pummeled it downtuned just to see. It will not flub..totally pulled me out of M circuits..the speaker as it continually breaks in even more alive,,just impresses me with classic sounds & how it can hold up with rock. I pair it with a Super with the Jensen's, what a layer together.. the wgs reminded me more of a jensen,in the low end,,just giving way too quick & and Eq'ing compensation has to always be done.

 

[ponce]

That was the point of that speaker really. Not "mud" but taming too much treble that exists in some amps...like just about every vintage Gibson for example when running single coils. It sounded fantastic in my early '60's Gibson amps.

Guess you're right, but never thought I'd be that incompatible with my amp. It was useful for Wes style Jazz exclusively, after I installed it.

 

[Milspec]

Guess you're right, but never thought I'd be that incompatible with my amp. It was useful for Wes style Jazz exclusively, after I installed it.

Speakers can be a crap shoot with some amps to be sure. I've had some very expensive speakers sound like garbage in certain amps.