Bone Voyage

Nick JD

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Wonderful build. Would love to see a spruce top plate with correctly tuned bracing. :D Have you thought about doing a top in spruce to hear the difference?
 

Mxk116

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Wonderful build. Would love to see a spruce top plate with correctly tuned bracing. :D Have you thought about doing a top in spruce to hear the difference?

It is likely Gil will reply to your question directly but this is what he had to say about using spruce in this design, "For Top and Back I have selected to use dense maple (Spruce will not work well on smaller plates and will sound too throaty and mid-rangy with less attack)."

These comments were made in post #2 in the thread.
 

Nick JD

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We can hear the difference acoustically between maple and spruce in a similar guitar(s).

Maple:
http://benedettoguitars.com/guitars/professional-series/bambino-deluxe™/

Spruce:
http://benedettoguitars.com/guitars/flagship-series/bambino-elite™/

IMO, the spruce sounds much better. But it's just that, an opinion. :D Gil being such a stickler for using correct tonewoods, I guess I'm a little surprised by not using the traditional tonewood for high-end archtop top plates.

Then again, those two are comparing hand-carved euro spruce to laminated maple and they're slightly bigger at 14.5" so maybe the comparision's not accurate. Maybe I just like throaty, mid-rangy, attackless (TBH that kinda describes most jazz players tone perfectly) tone! :D
 

Jaya

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Amazing idea taking a shape right in front of our eyes! This might become my next big obsession ;)
Thank you for sharing it with us Gil!!!
 

preeb

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awsome work preeb
what kind of bridge u going with?
you will find some use for that nice pice u cut out of the body:D
keep the pics commin

godbless:)

Thanks!
I will need to test a few bridge options after the guitar is done.
This is one of the things that need to be played and evaluated for proper tonality.
 

preeb

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You call them cat's eyes, I'll call them Viking horns :D.

Really loving this build Gil. I think it will turn out awesome. I've got to figure out a way to build a hollow body someday. Something to play jazz poorly on :p.

Let's settle for 'Horny Viking Cat's eyes' (-;
 

preeb

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Hm? ... I always thought that the wood grain of a bracing should go from one end to the other, that brings max. stability. In your guitar the the wood grain is in a 45° angle to the direction of the bracing, that could be less sturdy as it should be, couldn't it?

I don't think so.
You should consider two things here:
1 - Hard Maple is much stronger than Spruce
2 - Any standard bracing is as good as its glue joint..
 

preeb

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As always, enthralling documentation! I really appreciate that you take the time to explain your reasoning for doing something a certain way.

I'm wondering how you are planning to mount your pickups. Since you've taken pains to maximize the top plate surface, it seems a shame to cut holes in it to mount the pu's. Maybe float them somehow, or a new thin pickup like the Lace USAB?

Quite a few PU options for the Bone Voyage.
"None" is not a bad choice (-;
Or... one or two AirGap P90 or HB.
I expect a beautiful match between my AirGaps and this instrument.
Those who played the AG's probably know what I mean.

I see no problem in routing the top as long as the bracing is kept intact.
For the PU equipped Voyage I will route the top very shallow (5/32" rout).
We'll get to that soon.
 

preeb

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Always wondered why more builders didn't carve bracing into the plates! Well done.

I believe others do that.
The "big thing" here is using a one piece flat sawn maple plate.
It taps like a bell!! very different than the usual QS Spruce, louder and "crispier".
 

preeb

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Wonderful build. Would love to see a spruce top plate with correctly tuned bracing. :D Have you thought about doing a top in spruce to hear the difference?

Thanks Nick.
I did. It sounded too rounded for the tone I have in mind and that's why I mentioned that I need to come up with a totally different top for a 13" wide archtop.
I guess it can be made the classic way with a 2 piece Spruce top if the player is after a sweet and rounded tone.
I prefer to have a wide and even frequency range acoustically and control it with my hands as I play or with the correct amp settings. If it's there you can shape it but if it's not ... (-;
 

telemcCaster

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Hi Gil. You are embarking on an interesting journey.

I have made a guitar with integrated racing like that.

I used flatsawn Maple for the back.

I can show you a picture if you want.

One thing I would suggest if I could be so bold. I think your idea should be born out to see how it turns out. I would suggest not matching the frequency of the top to the back. Because this can result in a large peak and a wolf note. I try to avoid that with violins cellos and bases however this is no violin. Having said that, the pick up route is going to change the frequency specially if you hang the pick ups.

Wonderful job though.
 

knopflerfan

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preeb - once again, a great build by a fantastic builder/luthier. Thanks for sharing your wisdom to us neophytes and I can't wait to see how this beauty turns out.
 

jipp

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looking good. i can thinking of lots of things to make from the extra wood. :p heh.
look forward to further progress. its starting to get good now.
have a good day.
chris
 

preeb

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Hi Gil. You are embarking on an interesting journey.

I have made a guitar with integrated racing like that.

I used flatsawn Maple for the back.

I can show you a picture if you want.

One thing I would suggest if I could be so bold. I think your idea should be born out to see how it turns out. I would suggest not matching the frequency of the top to the back. Because this can result in a large peak and a wolf note. I try to avoid that with violins cellos and bases however this is no violin. Having said that, the pick up route is going to change the frequency specially if you hang the pick ups.

Wonderful job though.

Thanks for the input Ken. Appreciated!
The top and back do need to be matched at this early stage but there's a lot more to come in regards to the tuning so please bear with me here.
It will sing beautifully, no "standing" frequencies and "wolf" notes in plan (-;
 

preeb

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There are two or three bridge options for the Bone Voyage.
I'll be trying them and see which works best.
First option is keeping the original Bone-I bridge but instead of anchoring it to the top I can use a tailpiece rod much like it was on the early LP's.

Stud is cut, drilled and threaded. Before on the left and after on the right (-;

WP_20141212_010.jpg~original



steel rod is threaded and screwed in

WP_20141212_011.jpg~original


Note that the threaded bottom of the stud is cut short. I will be able to attach a wooden round base under it and shape it to get the correct playing action

WP_20141212_012.jpg~original



Bridge is drilled and the rod can run through it

WP_20141212_013.jpg~original



like this

WP_20141212_014.jpg~original


WP_20141212_016.jpg~original


WP_20141212_015.jpg~original



I haven't done the final bending and black chrome plating on the rod. I will do this at final assembly and If I'll decide to use it it will be bent properly into a nice rounded trapeze shape and plated along with a mounting end for the tailpiece of course.
 

preeb

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The second option is closer to the classic archtop design (BTW, both options can be used on the same guitar as there are no drills. Both connect to the end pin strap botton)

The classic tailpiece works along with a separate bridge that can either be an ABR type or a traditional hardwood. The more important factors of this design are:

1- Length of the tailpiece and the total length of the strings which affects the tension

2-The angle the strings are breaking over the bridge which affects the sustain and tonality (EQ)

3- The material the tailpiece and the bridge are made out of


Since I like to preserve the spirit of the Bone-I and have an articulated open tone with tight string tension I will be using a longer tailpiece (shorter strings), but not too long because I still like to have some of the classic archtop feel to it. Same with the angle.. since the Voyage has a smaller body the height of the bridge (neck angle) is not too high so the tailpiece will need to ride very low to get a proper string break angle over the bridge. As far as the material, I want it to be full sounding but a little warmer than the Bone-I so I'll be using Brass and Brazilian Rosewood (same billet as the board).

Here's the CAD design. An invisible Brass string retainer running under the rosewood

WP_20141213_030.jpg~original



The Brass will be cut out of a sheet and bent to reach the bottom strap mounting area

WP_20141213_037.jpg~original


WP_20141213_035.jpg~original


WP_20141213_036.jpg~original



and the CAM simulation

WP_20141213_039.jpg~original



Note that the Brass retainer will need to be bent to fit the rosewood, It will be done manually and with the help of a few little brass screws.

WP_20141213_038.jpg~original



I will not cut it today as I still need to order the correct thickness Brass sheet



The Rosewood tailpiece is crucial to the tone. I will be using premium Brazilian Rosewood and make sure to test the tap tone before deciding on a final thickness.
However.. I do want to keep the tailpiece profile as low as possible for comfort and good break angle. The solution I came up with is to carve the tailpiece in the exact 3D shape of the top. This way it will not stand too proud above the top and will look great and sexy (-;

I designed it in CAD to match the top curves

WP_20141213_029.jpg~original


WP_20141213_028.jpg~original



Bottom is carved first

WP_20141213_001.jpg~original



then it's flipped and the top is carved

WP_20141213_002.jpg~original



string access holes cut

WP_20141213_004.jpg~original


like that

WP_20141213_005.jpg~original



It hugs the top 100%. No gaps at all

WP_20141213_009.jpg~original


WP_20141213_007.jpg~original


WP_20141213_006.jpg~original



Now.. the tailpiece shouldn't come in touch with the top at all to allow the top to vibrate freely so pulling the tailpiece back a little (to it's correct position) will create the needed little gap. Pefrect!

WP_20141213_010.jpg~original




Shaping the tailpiece to match the rounded top dish took care of the string arc as well (-;

WP_20141213_012.jpg~original



I forgot to mention that the string anchoring points are angled because each string needs a different extra length for the entire set to balance nicely. I took the higher B and e slightly further closer to the bridge to have a better balance for 10's or 11's.

WP_20141213_014.jpg~original


I started with 1/4" thickness and a bulky shape and further hand thicknessed it until the tap tone was sweet to my ears

WP_20141213_013.jpg~original



and further shaped it to became more organic and feminine (-;


WP_20141213_015.jpg~original


WP_20141213_016.jpg~original


WP_20141213_017.jpg~original


WP_20141213_020.jpg~original


WP_20141213_021.jpg~original


WP_20141213_022.jpg~original



Here it is with the highly flamed (yes!) Brazilian Rosewood board blank that will be used on the Bone Voyage.

WP_20141213_026.jpg~original
 




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