body shape differences between toronado and jazzmaster?

naneek

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I have a toronado, which I love. I am looking into a local company that makes guitar bodies. looks like their only offset model is the jazzmaster.

what are the differences in the body shape? I'm having a hard time distinguishing from photos. after some searching, I can't find any articles or posts about this, or any photos of a toronado and jazzmaster side by side.

how do the jazzmaster and toronado compare in terms of contour and shape?

to my eye they look exactly the same, but the toronado has a more rounded lower bout.

I love the very rounded heavily contoured design of the toronado. I definitely want a rib/ belly contour on the back and and an forearm / shoulder contour on the front.

(I'm not considering the different trem and electronics routes. disregard that because I would be getting the body as a hardtail with rear control cavity route.)

I find the toronado very comfortable with good ergonomics for my needs. would the jazzmaster be pretty similar?

tldr: will a jazzmaster body be 'close enough' to my old toronado?
 

naneek

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can somebody move this thread to the tele home depot category because it is about a potential guitar build?

@admins @moderators?
 

schoolie

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iu
 

radiocaster

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I find the toronado very comfortable with good ergonomics for my needs. would the jazzmaster be pretty similar?
I find the Jazzmaster to be one of the most uncomfortable guitars, if not the most uncomfortable to play standing up. I cringe when I hear about ergonomics. Never played a Toronado.

That may not be your experience, and judging from what people write on the internet, not the experience of most people either.

Go to a local shop and try one. They're not that hard to find.
 

naneek

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The Toronado has smoother, rounder radii around the outline of the body.
The Toronado is like if you squished a Jazzmaster body. Bit of a fatter butt and a rounder middle. The Jazzmaster is a bit more svelte around the waist.
Thanks for putting that into words guys. great descriptions. that really helps me see the differences.

I think I definitely prefer the rounded lower bout of the toronado, as well as the more understated horns.

the jag has a more exaggerated upper horn, and a less clearly defined lower horn. it has a ton of wood behind the bridge, and it looks like the contour on the lower side would make it sit much differently when playing sitting down.

Looks like it's definitely worth it for me to get a toronado body custom made. and it won't require a body blank as large as the jazzmaster, which is also a plus.
 

naneek

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thanks schoolie that's a good reference.
that custom toronado looks pretty interesting, seems to have a fretboard with white binding. based on the non fender headstock and jazzmaster-ish pickguard, I wonder if there are any other subtle differences from the original toronado design.

cool guitar.
 

NTC

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I have a toronado, which I love. I am looking into a local company that makes guitar bodies. looks like their only offset model is the jazzmaster.
Can you have them trace the body of your guitar and use that for your custom?
 

NoTeleBob

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Also consider that the lower body bout, the part that rests on your leg, is in a different location vs. the 21st fret.

The effect is that the neck will feel like it's further to the left with the Jazzmaster. For reference, If you lined up a Strat with these two in the above photo, the Strat neck would be heading even further in the direction of the Tornado, bringing the 21st fret even closer into your lap than the Tornado when playing seated. This illustration below isn't perfect, but you can see that with the 21st frets aligned, the lower bout moves significantly.

Then add in that the Tornado is a 24.75 scale (with HB's and TOM, it's basically a Gibson-ized Fender).

Will either or both feel good to you? Best to do some sitting and testing.



1642892155727.png
 

naneek

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Can you have them trace the body of your guitar and use that for your custom?
that's the plan. I'm hoping they'll be able to simply trace it and cut it with a router or cnc. I'll leave the contours up to the builder.

I'm thinking it will be close to the original, but with wider edge on the underside of the guitar at waist. Just at the contact point between the guitar body and your leg. That way it will have the round comfortable feel of the toronado, but it will sit securely on the lap a bit more like a tele.
 
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naneek

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Also consider that the lower body bout, the part that rests on your leg, is in a different location vs. the 21st fret.

The effect is that the neck will feel like it's further to the left with the Jazzmaster. For reference, If you lined up a Strat with these two in the above photo, the Strat neck would be heading even further in the direction of the Tornado, bringing the 21st fret even closer into your lap than the Tornado when playing seated. This illustration below isn't perfect, but you can see that with the 21st frets aligned, the lower bout moves significantly.

Then add in that the Tornado is a 24.75 scale (with HB's and TOM, it's basically a Gibson-ized Fender).

Will either or both feel good to you? Best to do some sitting and testing.



View attachment 943030
good point and definitely something I will take into consideration. that was one of my concerns comparing the jazzmaster and toronado. I'm very comfortable with the original toronado, but I don't like to have a long reach to get to the lower frets.

I'd probably want to keep the gibson scale length, if I went with 25.5" it might increase the reach. It makes me wonder if the toronado's scale is due to a shorter neck, or if the bridge is simply lower on the body.


I'll have to measure the neck on my telecaster to compare with the toronado's neck.

Maybe I could go with a 25.5" scale (for twang and string tension) by simply moving the bridge lower on the toronado body.
 

NoTeleBob

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good point and definitely something I will take into consideration. that was one of my concerns comparing the jazzmaster and toronado. I'm very comfortable with the original toronado, but I don't like to have a long reach to get to the lower frets.

I'd probably want to keep the gibson scale length, if I went with 25.5" it might increase the reach. It makes me wonder if the toronado's scale is due to a shorter neck, or if the bridge is simply lower on the body.


I'll have to measure the neck on my telecaster to compare with the toronado's neck.

Maybe I could go with a 25.5" scale (for twang and string tension) by simply moving the bridge lower on the toronado body.

The 24.75 neck has to have the frets placed marginally closer. The actual neck length is only about a half-inch shorter vs. a 25.5 scale. The bridge moves to make up the rest of the difference.

But, body size and bout location is wide open. Look at the substantial difference in the bout location above. A Jazzmaster with the bout to the right and a 25.5 is definitely going to feel different.

The first time I picked up an SG, which is a similar "neck to the left" displacement, I was uncomfortable. As in "very". But I stuck with it. Now it feels like any other guitar. So, you might become accustomed to a Jazzmaster too.

Then you've got the pickup difference. Jazzmaster is single coils. Tornado is HB's. I'd probably lean to the Tornado if your goal is humbucker sounds. Gibson scale, HB's, but a Fender neck you're used to.
 

naneek

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The first time I picked up an SG, which is a similar "neck to the left" displacement, I was uncomfortable. As in "very". But I stuck with it. Now it feels like any other guitar. So, you might become accustomed to a Jazzmaster too.
that's really interesting that you bring up the SG, because I'm also planning to build an SG type guitar with a fender style bolt on neck. the small contoured body of an SG has always been very comfortable for me to play, but the necks sometimes feel a little thin for me.

I'm still in the sketches and doodles phase, and looking for my body blank. I'm thinking I'll use local wood for the body, and a mexican fender telecaster neck.

I hadn't specifically considered that "neck to the left" aspect.

Just by going with a fender style bolt on neck, that will bring the heel of the neck much lower on the body Compared to the set neck of a real SG. which like your saying is uniquely located above the cutaways for access to the high frets.

I was thinking about fret access with the bolt on neck. It will have a route for the neck pocket like any fender, which would basically put the high frets out of reach. so to compensate I was going to do a slight offset and bring the lower cutaway and the whole right side of the guitar a couple inches lower.

the offset will probably cancel out the difference of the set neck heel being lower/ farther to the right, and it will basically feel the same as a regular sg.

Now I'm wondering what it would look like with the fender neck pocket.. and instead of offsetting the right side of the guitar, offset both sides relative to the neck pocket.

offset the left side upwards, and offset the right side downwards. half of the total offset on each side of the guitar, relative to the neck pocket. that would keep the neck farther to the right. I'll have to do some more sketches.

Then add in that the Tornado is a 24.75 scale (with HB's and TOM, it's basically a Gibson-ized Fender).
I guess I'm basically planning to build a gibsonized fender (toronado) and a fenderized gibson (bolt on neck sg)

haha
 
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NoTeleBob

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that's really interesting that you bring up the SG, because I'm also planning to build an SG type guitar with a fender style bolt on neck. the small contoured body of an SG has always been very comfortable for me to play, but the necks sometimes feel a little thin for me.

I'm still in the sketches and doodles phase, and looking for my body blank. I'm thinking I'll use local wood for the body, and a mexican fender telecaster neck.

I hadn't specifically considered that "neck to the left" aspect.

Just by going with a fender style bolt on neck, that will bring the heel of the neck much lower on the body Compared to the set neck of a real SG. which like your saying is uniquely located above the cutaways for access to the high frets.

I was thinking about fret access with the bolt on neck. It will have a route for the neck pocket like any fender, which would basically put the high frets out of reach. so to compensate I was going to do a slight offset and bring the lower cutaway and the whole right side of the guitar a couple inches lower.

the offset will probably cancel out the difference of the set neck heel being lower/ farther to the right, and it will basically feel the same as a regular sg.

Now I'm wondering what it would look like with the fender neck pocket.. and instead of offsetting the right side of the guitar, offset both sides relative to the neck pocket.

offset the left side upwards, and offset the right side downwards. half of the total offset on each side of the guitar, relative to the neck pocket. that would keep the neck farther to the right. I'll have to do some more sketches.


I guess I'm basically planning to build a gibsonized fender (toronado) and a fenderized gibson (bolt on neck sg)

haha

FWIW, some Gibsons had thicker necks. I don't think the Epi's ever have really thick necks. They are definitely thicker on the LP's with set necks vs the '61 style necks on Epi's and Gibsons (thin) but I can't say how thick. There are also Gibsons with baseball bat necks - try a current Gibby LP Special.

I guess what I'm saying is that before you do all the work to fit a Fender neck, check out some Epi bolt-on necks. Or not, if you're bent on having a Fender style neck just for kicks.
 

naneek

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FWIW, some Gibsons had thicker necks. I don't think the Epi's ever have really thick necks. They are definitely thicker on the LP's with set necks vs the '61 style necks on Epi's and Gibsons (thin) but I can't say how thick. There are also Gibsons with baseball bat necks - try a current Gibby LP Special.

I guess what I'm saying is that before you do all the work to fit a Fender neck, check out some Epi bolt-on necks. Or not, if you're bent on having a Fender style neck just for kicks.
That's good to know, I had thought all SG's had slim necks. I guess my only experience with them was the 1981 factory custom SG I used to play. That had the early 60's small pickguard and a slim neck. I don't have that guitar any more, but I miss it.

There is a place in town that will mill les paul style necks for around $300 with maple or african mahogany. I was under the impression that the heel block was different on an LP, but I'll ask if they can do a chunky neck for an SG style body.

it probably wouldn't be any more expensive than a new mexican fender neck.

Maybe I'll rent a Gibson SG from my local guitar center and see how the stock configuration feels to me these days.

I could also trace the body onto poster-board for design mockups.
 

Yitar

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I compare the contours of guitars not only graphically, but also in the numerical values of X and Y. For this purpose, I start in the coordinate system with the origin (zero) below the bridge. I'm European and I measure in millimeters, but I don't avoid fractions of an inch where necessary. I divide the drawings into numbered tiles 100 by 100 millimeters so that the problems can be discussed in local details. Checkpoints (eg AGB-WNG-NE-CWU, etc.) are also used for this purpose. In the background is a fine ten-millimeter grid.
 

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Yitar

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For a detailed comparison, I am adding a tiled drawing of the Jazzmaster corpus:
 

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