Bob Brozman pretty much winning existence.

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by soltwanger, Apr 8, 2009.

  1. e-merlin

    e-merlin Doctor of Teleocity

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    This is just in response to a couple of comments, and I really won't have the time to watch the whole interview until the weekend, so bear that in mind.

    I do find it hard to listen to someone demean someone else's art to further their own. If one's own form can't stand on its own without putting someone else down, well, that's pretty sad. It's nothing less than self-important. That Brittany Spears comment is what I'm referring to. Sure, I don't care for her but that doesn't invalidate what she does or those who are her fans. After all, what is art?

    I am an artist working in many media, and mostly for my own pleasure. I have to support myself by having an acutal job. If one has found a niche where one can support himself with his art he has commercialized, regardless of to what degree. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

    Mr. Brozman, I applaud you for having an opinion and expressing it. That's something that's not so common these days. Can't say I agree heartily, though I agree with some of your ideas I've heard so far.

    This is just a preliminary comment based on others' comments about the video. I'll retract my statement and apologize if I'm wrong once I have watched the interview for myself.
     
  2. Bob Brozman

    Bob Brozman TDPRI Member

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    Warning-- opinion only:
    Groove is the #1 communicator worldwide. Many musicians rush a little when they play, not waiting that little extra on 2 & 4 to give it swing at any tempo or any groove. People (non-musicians and musicians alike) feel this and react with subconscious discomfort. If your groove (any kind from rock to waltz!) is relaxed and strong, people respond well. The further back you go with the backbeat, the further forward people will lean with their bodies to listen--this phenomenon transcends cultures.

    The other big communicator is tone--people really respond to emotional output through tone. I'm not saying that there is only one set of emotions associated with a given type of tone, but more that the listener can hear expression. Think of any favorite player of any instrument--their tonal expression physically on the instrument is a big part of what you like.

    Music is older than language, that's why language needs translation, but music doesn't.
     
  3. Bob Brozman

    Bob Brozman TDPRI Member

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    Thanks for your comments. I want to clarify that my statements about Britney are not expressing superiority or demeaning her. I think my form and my body of work stands alone pretty well. I was just stating my personal lack of musical interest in Commercial pop, as the rhythm is kind of boring.

    My guess is that she may have very little actual control of her art. That may be a guess, but it is a certain fact that all her vocals are computer auto-tuned, a shame when there must be so mny others who can sing well without it. My main point is that the beat is identical to military march music and the polka, not my personal cup of tea, no matter what the cup looks like.

    As far as commercialis and my self-support over a 40 year music career, I think of myself as a service worker primarily, and just like the other service workers in a venue, I get paid for it. Commercial with a capital C to me means making music with making money as the primary intent. My intent is to make enough to keep making the music I hear in my head, and to try and help people I interact with have a better day that day. Thanks again for your post.
     
  4. Big John

    Big John RIP

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    Yeah, yeah, 'Welcome Bob' and all that good stuff ..............

    Now then Bob, when are we going to get you fitted up with a Tele ? ;)
     
  5. soltwanger

    soltwanger Tele-Holic

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    Hey Bob that's awesome of you to respond, I really appreciate it. I watch that video every time I get in the slightest frustrated with my own music because it always gives me inspiration.

    What you talked about takes on a similar approach to something which I have been attempting to figure out for several years now, which is the big question of 'what makes music good'. I have pretty much come to the conclusion that it is exclusively connected to one's emotions characterised and determined by their character traits and life experiences. To put it cudely, Moody nihilistic teenagers might listen to metal because it is angry, raw, aggressive and controversial to the values imposed on them by their superiors which in term gives them a feeling of confidence and comfort. Pop music is largely lyrical gimmicks, aimed at the lowest common denominator and usually directed in a way that either preys on human insecurity (which is where the attractive image of britney et all comes in) or the mundane. Indie music in England where people sing about going to the pub/having fights/getting their girlfriend pregnant etc is successful because it directly represents the 'norm' of the country and it's culture, and people find so much comfort in what they can relate to. Singing about pickup trucks/jesus/marriage in american country music is another perfect example of this. All other factors such as the instrumentation and production are all just tools to aid this, and they all work as a form of subconscious thought control; to directly maniulate you into liking it.

    Every so often something will come along that hasn't been engineered, and fits the mould for being 'likeable' purely by chance, and this is often mistaken for 'talent'. examples include the beatles, led zeppelin and most breakthrough artists of the 60s and 70s. And you are right Bob, in the 70s the corporations did indeed figure out how to get control of it and pure commercial music was born, and they did this by realising the formula between music and human emotion, with money being the catalyst for it all. Nowadays any anomoly with this rare lucky success factor is snapped up by labels and moulded into a moneymaking machine. It works all the way From Britney Spears right down to Seasick Steve or even Nirvana.

    It is easy to be cynical about this and say that because of this, there really is no such thing as 'good' music; just projected emotions reacting with those of the listener, combined with the constant perpetuating cycle of normality and humanity's basic instinct to follow the crowd to find comfort. It really doesn't matter if someone has the most amazing intelligence and the most beautiful honest emotion, it really doesn't mean anything unless you can format it in some way to make people actually care. Blues and in some ways world music is exactly the same; nobody would care if if Robert Johnson had never been born and some middle class white 40 year old from London had written and played his songs in the 1980s. It's the shallow reality of the image that gives music it's credibility. It's the relation to the player's personality that the listener percieves that defines everything.

    there's such a fine line between "wow i totally get what he's doing!" or "I'm bored" or "what a wanker", and it is all down to the deepest levels of human psychology, and completely futile to attempt to explain in any kind of simple terms.

    Bob, I am interested to hear your reason for WHY you choose to make music and what emotions you honestly feel when you create it, and not when people react.
     
  6. eddiewagner

    eddiewagner Poster Extraordinaire

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    welcome bob. i can´t believe that another of my "guitar heroes" is roaming the fabulous telecaster forum.
     
  7. born2tele

    born2tele TDPRI Member

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    Not a great guitarplayer? Yeah right.

    That was so inspiring, he´s a true teacher of life
    and music I´d say.
     
  8. Bob Brozman

    Bob Brozman TDPRI Member

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    "Bob, I am interested to hear your reason for WHY you choose to make music and what emotions you honestly feel when you create it, and not when people react. "

    It has never been a choice for me....I need sound and music like air, water and food. I have been tapping on things since infancy, and playing WITH music as long as I can remember. It lets me experience ALL the emotions. Most music that I write comes to me in a flash. I also love to play music with other people, it is a special kind of communication unavailable with speech.
     
  9. rhh7

    rhh7 Tele-Afflicted

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    Welcome, Mr. Brozman. I enjoyed the interview immensely. I learned the difference between playing guitar and making music. And that music engenders empathy and compassion. And that is exactly what the world needs now, in my opinion. Thanks again!
     
  10. Bonneville Bruce

    Bonneville Bruce Tele-Holic

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    Dear Mr. Brozman,

    Welcome to the TDPRI site, we are honored to share with you. I appreciated your comments in the interview above, I find inspiration in them.

    I came to your music through "Tone Poems III" with David Grisman and Mike Auldridge. That seemed to be an act of love from all involved.

    I must ask ... do you play a Tele every now and then? It would connect some dots for me if you did.
     
  11. emu!

    emu! Poster Extraordinaire

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    The video to me is about using music as a soul-searching tool, then expressing the things you find in your inner depths through a guitar. That probably is what music was meant to be in the beginning.

    The only problem is that not everyone is a soul-searching type person, and to the non soul-searchers, it seems eclectic...so they go back to listening to Britney and Jonas Bros. They like it dumbed down because music is only meant to be fun for them.

    I can dig both ways.:D
     
  12. meatandpotatas

    meatandpotatas TDPRI Member

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    Bob Brozman, Ry Cooder, Mike Seeger, and Jerry Garcia are among a select group of musicians that have inspired me to dig deeper, listen with an open mind, and discover my own path. It's not about agreeing or disagreeing with their political views, lifestyle choices, musical output, or anything else. It's just a way of approaching an art form (music) that feels right to me.

    Sorry Bob, I'm going to have to steal that quote for future use. Not much else to add there.

    By the way, the Pacific Northwest is currently experiencing a serious tricone drought. A little Brozman would go a long way. Hint hint.
     
  13. Bob Brozman

    Bob Brozman TDPRI Member

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    "I must ask ... do you play a Tele every now and then? It would connect some dots for me if you did."


    Alright, I honestly admit i have hardly ever played a tele, or a strat, am really bad at it, too. (can i still post here?) :confused:

    The world has SO MANY GREAT tele players, who i admire a lot (Gatton, et al.)

    Still, Leo Fender was part of the california radical guitar development wave that runs from my era of interest to telecaster.com : Weissenborn to National, Dobro, Rickenbacher, to Fender, all people ahead of their time! I got on here just to clear up any questions about the interview, but of course am happy to answer any other music questions if i can.
     
  14. Lathem

    Lathem Tele-Meister

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    +1
     
  15. staxman

    staxman Tele-Holic

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    This comment really caught my eye as realated to the soul music that I love such as Stax, Muscle Shoals and Carolina Beach Music. Stax's Al Jackson always used the delayed backbeat to excellent effect as evidenced in the immense appeal of "In the Midnight Hour". The strong, behind the beat, groove has a primal appeal to folks for dancing or just plain groovin'. It is prevalent in 60s soul.
     
  16. dogggone

    dogggone Tele-Meister

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    Great post sol.
    Welcome Bob.
     
  17. e-merlin

    e-merlin Doctor of Teleocity

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    I feel the same way. I have to play. But most of the music I write goes straight into File 13. I'm a lot better when it comes to the mechanical arts and the art that is physics.

    Hey, I like a good polka every now an then. We gotta have some good beer-drinkin', woman chasin' music, now, right? That's what it's all about, contrary to what that Hokey-Pokey song says...:D

    And, as a former trumpet player, I gotta say, a good, rousing march can be uplifting...As long as there are no jackboots involved.
     
  18. DocG

    DocG Tele-Holic

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    What a surprise and delight to find you here, Bob! And the video is a fascinating look into your thought process and your world view. There's a lot to think about there - I'll have to review it a few more times. But your comment that groove and tone are part of the human language was great to read. It's the heart of how I try to communicate with my playing.

    By the way, that hambone stuff at the beginning of the video is great! Can you point me to more of it online?
     
  19. Bob Brozman

    Bob Brozman TDPRI Member

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    I think that "Brozman song 2"on youtube has what you refer to
     
  20. T_red7882

    T_red7882 Tele-Afflicted

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    Bob, have you read "blank slate" by Steven Pinker? I think you would find that book very interesting.

    Also, i can't help but find it really funny how you choose 1972 as the end/beginning. This "from the top" down mentality that you speak of is nothing new, but has it occured to you, or other members here, that musicians are "using" the record companies the way we think record companies are using musicians. I like to think that artists like U2, Bob Dylan, Radiohead, The Clash, Rage Against The Machine (and many others), have all effectively "used" record companies to push agendas that echo many of your sentiments, albeit in a more mainstream fashion. At the same time, they have honed their skills to continually find better ways of presenting themselves. Sure, albums these days are compressed and limited, but albums are a "snap shot" of any act or musician(s), but LIVE is where these musicians are free of record companies, and are able to do what they want. except, the record companies pay to promote them, get them on magazine covers, get them air time, get them known, and get people to go to their concerts essentially. that says to me "from the bottom up." I know that there are countless artists our there that are effectively tools of the industry, tightly packaged to sell and look good; that's obvious. But, we cannot make blanket statements that 1972 represents this mark in time when everything changed. I for one think that 1973-74-75 had some of the best records and best music ever (zep, waylon, gram, the dead etc... ) made that really really speaks to me. I've played music all my life, on about 9 different instruments... I just fail to see how I could be so effectively fooled. Granted, I'm 26 and still green in the eyes of many, but I like to think I am somewhat able to see through a large amount of BS. I agree with many of your statements in the video, but I just don't see how you can espouse one angle without acknowledging the other. I know you are just being general, but I have to play devils advocate here. Keep up the great work though. Ever play any pedal steel? It seems like it'd suit you quite well. Peace.
     
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