Blushing.. but while polishing?

Discussion in 'Finely Finished' started by Brockuza, May 16, 2021.

  1. Brockuza

    Brockuza TDPRI Member

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    Having a issue with some blushing on my necks. I sprayed 8-10 coats of nitro (sprayed thin coats, during 80 degree weather with only 20% humidity) and waited a good 4 weeks. Everything looked great, so I moved on to wet sanding - 800, 1000, 1200. Still looked great, so I moved on to my Stewmac compounds - medium, fine, swirl remover. And 20 minutes later - blushing like crazy. I can’t figure out where in my process I could get this from. I have some Blush Eraser but the weather is pretty gloomy for the next few days so I’m trying to hold off.

    Anybody run into this problem before? If so, how did you fix it?
     

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  2. Peegoo

    Peegoo Poster Extraordinaire

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    Buffing in humid conditions can work moisture into the lacquer. The drier the air--the better.
     
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  3. Brockuza

    Brockuza TDPRI Member

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    Got it. So am I ok to continue with the wet sanding on the other neck, and long as I wait for drier days to buff/polish?

    I can use Blush Eraser (weather permitting) on the current neck and wait for that to clear up in the mean time.
     
  4. Freeman Keller

    Freeman Keller Poster Extraordinaire

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    My only instance of blushing with lacquer was too high a humidity (I knew it at the time). I tried blush eraser and it did nothing. After a few years it got to bugging me so I stripped the guitar and started over. I'm happy now.

    Did you use a sealer or any stains before the lacquer? Was it StewMac's lacquer?
     
  5. Brockuza

    Brockuza TDPRI Member

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    I used shellac as my sealer, and the lacquer was Behlen’s. For the first 2 coats, the lacquer was mixed with a few drops of Transtint, but that was the only thing I added to the lacquer other than thinner.
     
  6. Steve Holt

    Steve Holt Friend of Leo's

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    Are you wet sanding with water or mineral spirits?
     
  7. Rigel7

    Rigel7 Tele-Meister

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    I wonder if it's possible that one of your products sort of re-activated the lacquer and picked up moisture at that point?
     
  8. Brockuza

    Brockuza TDPRI Member

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    I’m using water. I’m thinking I might change it up if this continues.
     
  9. Steve Holt

    Steve Holt Friend of Leo's

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    I decided to try water once after using mineral spirits for years. The water got under the finish at the tuner holes and caused some problems. I've been using mineral spirits since. I'd like to use water, for the smell and not getting mineral spirits all over me. But it is what it is.

    Once I was out of odorless mineral spirits and found a jug of low odor instead. Big mistake. The fumes from that stuff were quite a bit worse and my guitar stunk for weeks afterwards.
     
  10. Sea Devil

    Sea Devil Friend of Leo's

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    That looks nothing like normal blushing. Something weird is going on. I think you may have sanded and buffed through the lacquer to the the shellac undercoat, which looks to have been very uneven. That would mean that all the color from the TransTint is gone in those areas, and you need to strip it and start over. That would include removing the shellac in this case.

    My best finishes have required no sanding whatsoever on the final coat, just a quick hand buff with Mirror Glaze. Flattening is super-important in the early stages, but should take care of itself by the time you get to the top coat. My coats also typically dry in 2-36 hours, usually in well under 24 hours. I might wait three to five days for a serious hard buff, but I get good results from doing it sooner and starting with just a soft cloth and no compound using a progressively firmer touch.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2021
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  11. Drak

    Drak Tele-Afflicted

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    Beat me to it. Totally agree, I don't believe that's blushing at all.
    What it is, I don't know, but using the wrong terminology offhandedly confuses people, and confuses answers and possible solutions.

    A better way of approaching it would be:
    'What is this', then describe everything just the way you did.

    Cart before horse here.
    Conclusion reached before facts support conclusion.
    Now everyone has to get 'blushing' out of their heads to reach a real possible answer for you.
     
  12. Drak

    Drak Tele-Afflicted

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    Just shooting in the dark here...

    IF
    you were using a high-powered buffer at high speed, you may have burned (melted) the finish.

    Because: If you did what you said you did, the finish wouldn't look anything like that.
    If you actually went through all the grits, that finish would look as smooth as glass.
    And it looks nothing like glass, there's all kinds of irregularities in it.

    As Sea Devil said, something weird goin' on there...
     
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  13. eallen

    eallen Friend of Leo's

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    To be honest, it looks like you may be buffing thru the finish rather than blushing.

    What grit did you wet sand with?
    (By the way, I have only wetsanded with naptha for years.)

    Eric
     
  14. boneyguy

    boneyguy Doctor of Teleocity

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    It doesn't look like blushing to me either but I can't honestly say what it is for certain.
     
  15. colnago

    colnago Tele-Meister

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    Is that surface smooth or orange peel like?
     
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  16. Brockuza

    Brockuza TDPRI Member

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    I buffed this by hand. And yeah I went through all the grits, and prior to buffing, the finished still looked smooth and I could still see my reflection in it. Went on the buffing, and it still looked good. But this haziness appeared a few minutes later. It’s hard to see in these pictures, but you can actually see the hazy film is sitting on top of the finish. I fogged a little Blush Eraser on it and it instantly disappeared, but I’m worried it’ll show up again if I use any compound.
     
  17. Drak

    Drak Tele-Afflicted

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    Hold on.

    It was mirror-smooth and mirror-shined up to compound and you applied the compound by hand, and it did that minutes after you were done, just sitting alone by itself?

    For starters, I would not use any more blush eraser, blush cannot be your problem and blush eraser isn't your friend, generally. It's a last-ditch maneuver.

    But given the facts you gave, that cannot be blush.

    I'm still going with weirdness so far.

    I'm thinking some sort of weird chemical reaction between your finish and whatever is in your compound agent.
    That's what I got at the moment.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2021
  18. stratisfied

    stratisfied Tele-Holic

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    Lacquer can appear rock hard and still be wet under a hard shell. If the lacquer is applied in a single heavy coat or multiple coats in rapid succession and conditions are just right, it wont dry all the way through (all solvents flashed off).

    Buffing too soon seals the surface and the silicates (fine abrasives) in the polish fill the microscopic fractures in the lacquer surface preventing off-gassing of the remaining solvent. The evaporating solvent accumulates just under the polished surface and delaminates/dissolves it, trapping moisture in and resembling blushing.

    You'll have to wet sand through the delaminated and dissolved lacquer to sound finish before respraying.
     
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  19. TwoBear

    TwoBear Tele-Holic

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    You say you waited four weeks, but how long did you wait between coats? Lacquer can fool you because it seems to dry so quickly. Edit- I just looked over the pictures and that seems like something that happens from heat I don’t mean temperature I mean too hot of a product. I’m definitely thinking you put on too many coats too quickly. It’s so easy with lacquer as it seems to dry so quickly. Maybe next time in addition to going by time, and obviously giving yourself more if that’s what it comes out to be what’s needed, using your fingers as a test on the area where it bolts up and using a good pressure to see if you’re leaving any indentation, or even a blush If you use your bare finger, as moisture may transfer. Also did you wipe down in between coats with something that was contaminated? My votes are for rushing your early coats or contamination or both. I would definitely sand down most of it, All the problem areas and fading into any areas that seem OK, and starting over, giving yourself a good amount of time between coats. I guess it’s also possible that your sealer, did you say it was shellac? I didn’t see how much time between but it’s possible that was still offgassing... oils will usually make Fish eyes, but contaminants and products that don’t like each other can react in usually predictable ways but sometimes in strange ones. It’s been along time since I shot for a living but it seems something like that happened to me once when I thought I still had product in my Devilbiss but I had actually cleaned it out and I shot straight lacquer. Also reminds me of when I didn’t like a lacquer finish and used a soaked rag to get most of it off. One last thing comes to mind are you sure there weren’t any strange hens or roosters in The spraying coop?
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2021
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  20. TwoBear

    TwoBear Tele-Holic

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    You use lacquer thinner correct? And at what percent mixture, Because that could happen shooting too thin coats. And was this from a gun with a compressor, and if so air water separator and tank drained? No water in the hoses? Most paint fisheye from contaminants but laq ‘can’ act differently as it dries so quickly and can coat so thinly.
     
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