Blackvibe vs Blackface

Discussion in 'Shock Brother's DIY Amps' started by robrob, Jul 28, 2019.

  1. robrob

    robrob Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Blackvibe vs True Blackface Tone

    Johannes Specht from Vienna, Austria built a Blackvibe 6V6 and compared it to his original 1966 blackface Deluxe Reverb. For a direct comparison between the two, Johannes recorded a Strat into a TC Electronic Looper to get exactly the same signal into both amps. He also used the same cab with a Weber 12F150 speaker for both amps and recorded mostly dry with just a bit of dirt and reverb/delay in post production.

    He created two very high quality recordings:

    66 Deluxe Reverb Normal channel mp3 file
    Blackvibe mp3


    You be the judge of the authenticity of the Blackvibe tone.

    https://robrobinette.com/RR763_BLACKVIBE.htm
     
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  2. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

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    Thanks Rob.




    Both recordings sound great.


    Could we get some analysis?
     
  3. Jake Nelson

    Jake Nelson Tele-Meister

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    Excellent, I have a 6L6 version started and this is inspiring.
     
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  4. tweedy_woodpecker

    tweedy_woodpecker TDPRI Member

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    Hi guys, hi Rob!

    My first post here, these are my audio samples and amp, what specifics you like to know?

    Basically the project started out as a Princeton style amp (without reverb or tremolo) but with a LTP instead of a Cathodyne PI and then it morphed into a Blackvibe 6V6 with a few differences, mainly in the filtering section an additional features like a NFB POT and a Cathode bias switch. It sounds fantastic, I am quite pleased with the results.

    I am currently waiting for the cabinet (5E3 style) to put the chassis into...as you can see the 5E3 chassis was a tight fit for the curcuit :cool:

    Thanks to Rob for providing all that valauble info on his website and all the members here who are so knowledgable about amps !!

    I'd be happy to answer more questions...

    IMG_4978.jpg

    IMG_5002.jpg

    IMG_4988.jpg
     
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  5. tweedy_woodpecker

    tweedy_woodpecker TDPRI Member

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  6. drf64

    drf64 Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Both sound good, but I hear really sensitive pick responsiveness from the blackvibe. The attack sounds like what you'd expect from a SE amp. That's a good thing. I love SE responsiveness.

    great job! sounds amazing!
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
  7. peteb

    peteb Friend of Leo's

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    First question



    What are the goals?



    Were they accomplished?



    Thanks
     
  8. robrob

    robrob Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Very nice playing Johannes and thank you again for allowing me to use your sound samples on the Blackvibe website.
     
  9. robrob

    robrob Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    peteb, the goal was to layout an easy to build AB763 blackface amp by removing the reverb, tremolo and vibrato channel. I think these sound files prove that the goal was met.
     
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  10. tweedy_woodpecker

    tweedy_woodpecker TDPRI Member

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    Thanks, Rob...as I said, when I get the amp into the cabinet I will send some better photos for your website.

    As Rob already mentioned the main goal was to design a single channel BF amp but without the reverb and tremolo. My goal was to see if the LTP makes a big difference to the sound compared to a Cathodyne PI which I used on my most recent amp. I did not use the choke used by an AB763, the 5E3 chassis/cabinet would not have had sufficient space for it.

    Just one more thing @drf64: Thanks for the kind words. It is not a SE amp though, it is a regular pushPull 2x6V6 amp...
     
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  11. robrob

    robrob Poster Extraordinaire Ad Free Member

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    Johannes, I'd love to hear a demo comparing fixed vs cathode bias and an NFB demo.
     
  12. tweedy_woodpecker

    tweedy_woodpecker TDPRI Member

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    Sure, I'll see if I can make one tomorrow...I'b be interested too if you can tell a big difference in an audio sample. The difference in playing feel is really noticable with cathode bias and less NFB...and I already tried putting in a 5Y3 which gives it even more of a Tweed vibe.
     
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  13. schmee

    schmee Poster Extraordinaire

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    That must be with a dirt pedal right? Or just NFB changes?
    I've built a couple non reverb /trem based on the BF circuit. No choke. Even built the Hot Rod Princeton Reverb circuit with 6L6's and no Choke. (big trannies) It seemed fine that way. Tried various filter values from 44 uf, 33uf and just stock 20 uf.
    On the Princeton based ones I liked the Cath PI. Gives some great lower volume tone is my impression.
    On the single channel BFD I stayed with the long tail PI and kept it simple like this: (ignore the control panel parts)
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
  14. tweedy_woodpecker

    tweedy_woodpecker TDPRI Member

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    @schmee: yes, I used a TS style pedal and a Box vof Rock clone...which values did you like best in the filter stage?
     
  15. schmee

    schmee Poster Extraordinaire

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    I ended up with the 33/33/33/20 But didn't really hear a huge difference really.
    Interestingly, regarding my experimental 70 PR chassis a lot of this was done on... I returned to stock other than a huge power tranny and a DR output tranny earlier this year. Still has the Cathodyne PI and all PR stock values including filters. I posted here a while back about that, the darn thing has headroom forever! It really surprised me. Also It's the quietest amp I own. Recording last year, the studio guy was commenting on it; "that's the quietest tube amp I've had in here". The wiring is a bit of a mess on it from all the experimenting over the years.... Apparently the electrons didn't read the memo that neatness counts!
    [​IMG]
     
  16. tweedy_woodpecker

    tweedy_woodpecker TDPRI Member

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    Nice amp! Looks great.
     
  17. LudwigvonBirk

    LudwigvonBirk Tele-Holic

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    Seconded!
     
  18. muscmp

    muscmp Tele-Afflicted

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    both sounded great to me. can we see the schematic? edit: i see the schem on rob's site.

    play music!
     
  19. tweedy_woodpecker

    tweedy_woodpecker TDPRI Member

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    I did some more samples of the amp always using the same loop I recorded into a TC Looper.
    I used different power tubes (6L6/6V6) and recitfiers (GZ34/5Y3) with and without NFB and or Cathode Bias and I normalized the files but otherwise used no further processing.
    The differences were much more pronounced live in terms of playing feel, volume and sound than in the files and you need decent headphones or monitor system to clearly hear the differences in terms of high end response and density although they are there.

    Possible Lessons:
    - The amp circuit design makes much more sound difference than different tubes except for headroom and feel?
    - Same for the NFB and Cathode bias? (although I have to say it really makes a difference when playing live)
    - Speakers make a bigger difference than this
    - Guitars make a big difference
    - Players make the most difference
    - We obsess to much about this stuff
    - What do you think?

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ure3cxl9uc4llq1/AADTk6LdscmBj54I0imoqcQ7a?dl=0
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2019
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  20. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Just one question regarding the moniker ‘black vibe’. How does a circuit get named for a Vibrato..tremolo... circuit when it has no vibrato..tremolo...circuit?? (;^). Why not name it Norm? Or...since it is like any other Normal channel in any other BF amp, just call it AB Normal?
     
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