Black Water guitars?

[Danjabellza]

i stumbled across this tonight in an incredibly upscale pawn shop inside the cosmopolitan hotel in Las Vegas. It's a ($5k)T-style guitar with 1 humbucker, a 3way switch, hipshot jannes bridge, open hipshot locking tuners, ash body with very thin finish. (You can see and feel the grain.) and fanned frets. I've never heard of Black water guitars before. Anyone here know about them?

Lighting was very poor. Sorry for the image quality.

 

[telemnemonics]

Looks special ops to me...

 

[brookdalebill]

Weird, cool weird!

 

[Obsessed]

My best friend plays mostly fan fret guitars and basses. He talked about the Black Water electrics, but I don't know if he ever played one. He flips guitars like I flip hamburgers, so I'll have to ask him.

 

[Danjabellza]

It was well put together. Although I did a quick look at their website and a similar set up only costs about 3,200 vs 5000 at the pawn shop. Must be a custom 1 off.

 

[jdbunda]

Or it's just the price for the instant-gratification Vegas big shot.

 

[BigDaddyLH]

Let me know when they have a MadeInChina line. $3,200?!

Does a fan-fretted guitar cost more to construct that a vanilla guitar?

 

[Danjabellza]

Let me know when they have a MadeInChina line. $3,200?!

Does a fan-fretted guitar cost more to construct that a vanilla guitar?

It does. They have to angle the nut, the bridge, and the frets precisely to ensure good intonation throughout all 6 scale lengths.

With fanned frets or "multi-scale" guitars you Have 6 different scale lengths. It's supposed to improve the sound from string to string while also helping to balance tension somehow.

The one I saw/took pics of is a pretty sharp fan. Some have lesser changes from 1st to 6th string. This one was a 2"+ change in scale.

Unfortunately the gal at the shop didn't know anything about it.

 

[Obsessed]

Just to add, if you want a guitar that intonates on every string at every fret, it must be a fan fret. Yeah, the common guitar is totally compromised design wise, due to ease of building and ease of playing. My buddy went from fan fret guitars to fan fret basses, just because he is very sensitive to tuning. They are very, very expensive.

Don't ever do what I did ... intonate at the 12th fret, then check the intonation at any other fret. Umm, yeah, some things are better not to know.

 

[BigDaddyLH]

How does CNC work on a fan-fretted neck? I though

It does. They have to angle the nut, the bridge, and the frets precisely to ensure good intonation throughout all 6 scale lengths.

How much of that is being done by CNC? I thought the fret and nut slots would be cut by automation, so straight or slanted makes no difference. Then I can't imagine fitting frets and the nut are that different. The fancy individual bridge components of a multiscale guitar may take more effort to mount, though.

 

[Danjabellza]

How does CNC work on a fan-fretted neck? I though


How much of that is being done by CNC? I thought the fret and nut slots would be cut by automation, so straight or slanted makes no difference. Then I can't imagine fitting frets and the nut are that different. The fancy individual bridge components of a multiscale guitar may take more effort to mount, though.

I imagine there is some of that going on depending on the manufacturer. If I understand, they come in lots of different angles some have drastic changes from one scale to another like this one, and others have very slight fans. Very interesting.

 

[jdbunda]

Funny how the brain expects to see things in a certain way. Those pictures still look to me like they were taken through some kind of fun-house filter or weird fish-eye lens - even if you know it's a fan-fret.

 

[BigDaddyLH]

For what it's worth, I see Kiesel has a multiscale guitar for $1600, the CL6 Chris Letchford Signature Multiscale Headless.

 

[ThePhilosopher]

It's a ($5k)T-style guitar with 1 humbucker, a 3way switch, hipshot jannes bridge, open hipshot locking tuners, ash body with very thin finish. (You can see and feel the grain.) and fanned frets. I've never heard of Black water guitars before. Anyone here know about them?

I paid less than $2000 to have this guitar made and sourced the neck and fretboard wood myself. The bridge is comprised of 6 ABM single string bridge saddles (not Hipshot). When I had the guitar the 3-way switch provided a series/split/parallel option. The scale lengths are 25.5" - 28.625" and was designed to be tuned from low F-e in fifths.

I've been trying to hunt this thing down for a while now, but I wouldn't pay anywhere near what they are asking for it.
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[telemnemonics]

I paid less than $2000 to have this guitar made and sourced the neck and fretboard wood myself. The bridge is comprised of 6 ABM single string bridge saddles (not Hipshot). When I had the guitar the 3-way switch provided a series/split/parallel option. The scale lengths are 25.5" - 28.625" and was designed to be tuned from low F-e in fifths.

I've been trying to hunt this thing down for a while now, but I wouldn't pay anywhere near what they are asking for it.
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How do you find string bending works?
Bending high strings below the 12th fret, as you increase the tension with the bend, you also lengthen the scale length, so the pitch goes up less that normal.
Then bending above the 12th fret, as you increase the tension with the bend, you also shorten the string length, so the pitch goes up more than normal.
Then same positions but low strings you'd get opposite odd effects.

Seems like the goals of these guitars are more sort of piano precision music oriented and less about the liquid moving pitch mojo of slinky stringed electric guitar.

Or am I just missing the point and need to buy and learn for myself?

 

[Danjabellza]

I paid less than $2000 to have this guitar made and sourced the neck and fretboard wood myself. The bridge is comprised of 6 ABM single string bridge saddles (not Hipshot). When I had the guitar the 3-way switch provided a series/split/parallel option. The scale lengths are 25.5" - 28.625" and was designed to be tuned from low F-e in fifths.

I've been trying to hunt this thing down for a while now, but I wouldn't pay anywhere near what they are asking for it.
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I found a guitar that you custom ordered? And you've been looking for it for a while? Weird. It's at beauty and Essex in the cosmopolitan hotel in Las Vegas. Or at least it was in June.

 

[Dismalhead]

Awesome looking, but $5K? That's ridiculous.

 

[telemnemonics]

I found a guitar that you custom ordered? And you've been looking for it for a while? Weird. It's at beauty and Essex in the cosmopolitan hotel in Las Vegas. Or at least it was in June.

Well that is pretty strange, though of course this is the internet and there are image search functions available on many devices.
I just figured I was missing the disconnect between two presumably similar but different guitars.

Good thing you didn't buy it (ha ha ha $5k), you don't want to get on the wrong side of blackwater.

 

[BigDaddyLH]

Good thing you didn't buy it (ha ha ha $5k), you don't want to get on the wrong side of blackwater.

Black helicopters overhead in 5, 4, 3, 2...

 

[ThePhilosopher]

How do you find string bending works?
Bending high strings below the 12th fret, as you increase the tension with the bend, you also lengthen the scale length, so the pitch goes up less that normal.
Then bending above the 12th fret, as you increase the tension with the bend, you also shorten the string length, so the pitch goes up more than normal.
Then same positions but low strings you'd get opposite odd effects.

Seems like the goals of these guitars are more sort of piano precision music oriented and less about the liquid moving pitch mojo of slinky stringed electric guitar.

Or am I just missing the point and need to buy and learn for myself?

The point is to be able to use smaller gauge strings to maintain the guitar-type tone as you lower the pitch. Bending was fine for me.

I found a guitar that you custom ordered? And you've been looking for it for a while? Weird. It's at beauty and Essex in the cosmopolitan hotel in Las Vegas. Or at least it was in June.

Well that is pretty strange, though of course this is the internet and there are image search functions available on many devices.
I just figured I was missing the disconnect between two presumably similar but different guitars.

Good thing you didn't buy it (ha ha ha $5k), you don't want to get on the wrong side of blackwater.

I had previously sold the guitar to raise needed funds. I had been looking for it to see if I would ever own it again - it appears not. Aaron at Blackwater only makes custom one-off guitars (I can guarantee this is the same guitar) though I wouldn't give him two pennies today (his business skills are non-existent).