Bixby clone on a hollow body?

[ChasboyOne]

I hope I’m not overstepping, but I have a question about a guitar kit I’m building.
It is an E335 Gibson(?) style hollow body electric. It came with a Bixby B70 style vibrato, but there is no support structure inside the body to accommodate the 2 B70 screw holes. They did drill and supply bushings for the bridge itself, but I’m worried about putting screws thru the thin body area. Is this normal for a Bixby installation?
I saw a product online called the “Vibramate Adapter” but I’m unsure if the Bixby “style” tremolo will be compatible.
I did add a Duesenberg Tremolo to my Ibanez AR63 hollow body with no problems but I think that guitar had some kind of support structure underneath.

The area where the two screws near the bridge need to be drilled just go through thin areas. There’s no heavier wood underneath for Support. I was wondering if I should glue something underneath to give them something to bite on? Mine does have the more support area by the button. There are three screws there.

Thanks for the help!

 

[superbadj]

A: Bigsby, not Bixby.
B: There are various Vibramates for various guitars and various Bigsbys, get the right one for the guitar and the Bigsby.
C: Is it fully hollow? A 335 is semi-hollow so it would be solid under the Bigsby. If it's fully hollow like a Casino yeah I wouldn't screw into that top and I'd be worried about it supporting it. It can be done though. Epiphone Casinos have come with Bigsbys, obviously so have Gretsch guitars.

 

[Freeman Keller]

As Superbadj said, if its a 335 or 335 clone it will have a solid center block to support both the bridge and the trem (or stop bar if no trem). I don't think I would screw a Bigsby to the laminated top of a fully hollow body, altho some hollows (like 175's) have braces that run under the bridge. I would confirm whether it does have a block. Here is a 335 style guitar with the full center block



And with the trem sitting on the guitar. There are two screws that go into the top and two in the tail block.



Try poking a coat hanger into that area to see what you've got.

 

[Hiwatts-n-Gibsons]

If the guitar is a true hollow body with a stop tail bar I am both surprised that there is no additional support under where the stop tail is mounted, and would be leary of even adding a Bigsby with a Vibramate due to the added stress on the thin wood top by using the bar. Maybe I am just being overly cautious, but flexing that wood to any degree would seem like a bad idea for its stability.

 

[ChasboyOne]

Thanks folks. I checked with a strong flashlight and a mirror, and there’s nothing there but a ‘T’ shaped block that supports the bridge with predrilled holes. There is a small block for the stop tail. This is a “Pango” kit from “GuitarKitshop” and the support has been none existent as if no one has any idea of how they built their own guitar.
I was wondering if there is a way of doing a ‘trick’ like we sometimes do with sheetrock when we try to add some type of support for a patch, sortof like a toggle bolt. I’ve done it by sliding a piece of wood into the hole, turning it so it overlaps the hole and then putting screws into it thru the good sheetrock. I then make a patch the size of the hole and screw thru that to the piece of wood that spans the hole. Works better for me than the other method of cutting away the back part of the sheetrock so the front paper overlaps the hole.
I was thinking I could drill the holes, insert a piece of thicker wood to the underside with glue and temporarily secure it with a screw from the top, using the drilled hole. Once it dries I would have more beef to screw into.

 

[Hiwatts-n-Gibsons]

Thanks folks. I checked with a strong flashlight and a mirror, and there’s nothing there but a ‘T’ shaped block that supports the bridge with predrilled holes. There is a small block for the stop tail. This is a “Pango” kit from “GuitarKitshop” and the support has been none existent as if no one has any idea of how they built their own guitar.
I was wondering if there is a way of doing a ‘trick’ like we sometimes do with sheetrock when we try to add some type of support for a patch, sortof like a toggle bolt. I’ve done it by sliding a piece of wood into the hole, turning it so it overlaps the hole and then putting screws into it thru the good sheetrock. I then make a patch the size of the hole and screw thru that to the piece of wood that spans the hole. Works better for me than the other method of cutting away the back part of the sheetrock so the front paper overlaps the hole.
I was thinking I could drill the holes, insert a piece of thicker wood to the underside with glue and temporarily secure it with a screw from the top, using the drilled hole. Once it dries I would have more beef to screw into.

If there is a small block for the stop tail, then you should be good to go. Just use a Vibramate. I have used them on 3 guitars I added Bigsbys too, and they work beautifully as well as being non-invasive.

 

[ChasboyOne]

If there is a small block for the stop tail, then you should be good to go. Just use a Vibramate. I have used them on 3 guitars I added Bigsbys too, and they work beautifully as well as being non-invasive.

I have to figure out if my non-Bixby will fit! Any good places (read inexpensive) to buy them?

 

[Hiwatts-n-Gibsons]

I have to figure out if my non-Bixby will fit! Any good places (read inexpensive) to buy them?

Reverb, but tbt they are not crazy expensive to order directly from Vibramate themselves.

 

[Dostradamas]

Gretsch added this trestle block brace under the bridge in 2022 to the G5420T Electromatic hollow bodies for good reason.

 

[ChasboyOne]

Thanks, Since I’ve never built a ship in a bottle I don’t think I can get that trestle bridge in there!

 

[univibed]

It's Bigsby, not Bixby. We've all seen what happens when you piss this guy off, so don't go there.

 

[Boreas]

Bigsby recommends the B7/70 for the ES 335. Drill the proper size holes, install carefully and there shouldn't be a problem. Just don't use the arm as a carrying handle or anything like that. You can also use a B3 which generally is a smoother option because it doesn't have a tension roller, but you may not be able to get enough break angle on the bridge. May have some tuning instability with the B70 nylon washers.

 

[ChasboyOne]

I just got an email from Pango/Guitarkitshop with a PDF of an ancient guitar building book which is useless. I’ve also contacted Vibramate for help in choosing the right adapter.

 

[Boreas]

Could you back up a step and include pix of what you have? I am confused.

Are you building a kit, or was this another person? I assume the guitar is already built?

Is there a center block?

Do you already have the B70?

I personally wouldn't use a Vibramate - particularly on a guitar that gets much of its tone from a lightly-braced top. To ME, the best option would be a B3 or B6 because of the LACK of a tension rod (and screws) which gives a more sensitive feel to the Bigsby - especially teamed with a lighter spring. But much depends on the neck angle, top arch, bridge type/height, and your playing style.

 

[ChasboyOne]

Thanks, this is the kit: https://www.guitarkit.shop/collecti...-es-335-style-diy-electric-guitar-kit-phb-730

This is the vibrato from the bottom:

 

[Freeman Keller]

OK, I'll comment once more and then shut up. Have you determined exactly what kind of block or bracing you've go in side that thing. The ad calls it a "semi hollow" and "ES335 style", the correct use of those terms would be the solid center block with kerfed filler pieces on the top and bottom like I showed in my previous post. But who knows what a Chinese copy is. Many hollow bodies have some sort of braces running the length of the guitar as shown in post #9. I've also seen short blocks that don't extend to the tail block.

The top of the guitar is plywood, laminated maple and maybe other veneers. It will be slightly more than 1/8 inch thick. I would not screw the tremolo into just the top. You have some pretty big "f-holes" (except they aren't f shaped), if you determine that there is nothing inside you could laminate some additional bracing installing thru the f-holes and clamping to the top, you'll have to figure out how to clamp it but I think that could be done.

The problem that I am having with all of this is that the manufacture has obviously intended for it to have the trem, there are no holes (or bracing) for a stop bar. Early 335's had trapeze tailpieces and you could fit one to this instead of the trem, but for some reason they felt the trem would be fine.

I think the key right now is to confirm exactly what you have inside.

 

[Boreas]

Since it is in parts right now, just stick your phone or a mirror in the bridge pickup hole and/or F-holes and look toward the lower bout of the guitar. You will either see a block of wood in the way, or you will see to the tail block with only some braces in the way.

If there is a block visible, you need to MAP it to see if it is full length or not. It may only be under the bridge section. What I would suggest is to put some low-tack tape on the center of the body and use a cheap STUD FINDER to map where the block is and isn't. You just slide it around and where the "stud" drops off is the edge of the block. see if the block extends to where your screw holes will be for the Bigsby.

If the block is not going to help with the screws, you can still drill and screw into the plywood to mount the Bigsby, but it just won't be as solid. There is constant up-force at the tension roller caused by the strings, which isn't likely a problem if you drill and screw correctly. But really wailing on the whammy bar over time could pull out the screws. If screwing directly into plywood only, I would consider gluing the screws, or consider a B3 style.

From a Google AI source:

"Both the B3 and B6 are designed for archtop guitars, such as the Gibson 335, and are commonly found on Gretsch models. The B6 is longer and is used on larger guitars. The B3 is designed for thin electric guitars."

If I were going to spend $100 to attach with a V7, I would be inclined to invest in a B3 instead for the smoother action, no holes, and better return to tune function. The nylon bushings in B70s tend to be a friction point. They can be replaced with ball bearings which work very well, but it requires some boring/reaming out of the mounting holes. Or you could try a BiggsFix for $60 or so. A roller bridge would also be a good consideration, but usually not necessary.

 

[ChasboyOne]

Thank you folks. I have confirmed that there is only enough block supported by that 1x1 piece that will accept the bridge screws. There is no other blocking other than for the strap button and the tailpiece flap.
I think I’m going to use a glued ‘wood toggle bolt’ fabrication with a couple of small discs of strong wood that will withstand the grip of the vibrato screws, which are not overly large to start out with.
As for the ‘manufacturer “ I don’t think they have a clue. I’ll never buy a kit from them again. In fact I think I’m ready to start buying only necks and making the rest myself.

 

[Freeman Keller]

That is really unfortunate. One thing you might consider is just to make it a trapeze tailpiece type of guitar. Here is an old 335 and a Trini Lopez both which have them



I have built guitars with Bigbys (and have removed them from other guitars), if you really need and want a tremolo they work fine. The one that I put on a semi hollow I did use a roller bridge.

The reason that I said this is unfortunate is that hollow and semi hollow body guitar are about the most difficult any for a home builder. All of the issues of forming the top and backs is way beyond most hobbyists, it would be nice if their was a viable way for those of us without the complex molds, vacuum bagging and all that stuff.

From looking at the pictures of the kit I think it would be possible to slide some reinforcements in thru the f-holes and clamp against the underside of the top plate if you decide you want to go ahead with the trem. Good luck.

 

[ChasboyOne]

The point of the arrow shows the lowest extent of the wood underneath. There’s nothing else. I’m at a point where I do not want to spend any more money on this, I don’t think a vibramate will help. I have a variety of clamps and other sources to add wood to the area.