Bitcoin - Cryptocurrency

buster poser

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Losing the key to your crypto wallet is the same as losing your physical wallet in real life.

That being said - losing assets due to losing a password is one of the obvious weaknesses of the technology.
As is the nature of blockchains, which means, if you transfer money to a wrong account because you mix up a single digit of the recipient's wallet address, there is no way to recover the money, because transactions cannot be undone.


The crypto tech community is well aware of this, and working on solutions.
If I understand correctly, the reasoning behind using a blockchain vs. something like a conventional database (which allows to delete records and reverse transactions) is to keep it decentralised, and have a single global currency.


If you buy something online in places like Amazon etc., the underlying tech you see most often is an Oracle database, with SAP software on top. Transactions, even on a global level, are by default much, much faster than on a blockchain. And SAP is extremely sophisticated when it comes to adapting to financial laws in different countries.

To come anywhere near matching that in efficiency and reliability, crypto has a long way to go...
I mean if you could lose your wallet and it had $265m of yours and other people’s money in it, okay (Costanza would be jelly). Otherwise it’s pretty different affair. My man forgot a password.

But I agree… I PMd infrastructure builds underpinning SAP HANA (primarily for a big red soda company’s logistic database schema). Absolutely… crypto has a ways to go, particularly because the energy, literal and figurative, is being put into making more bitcoins vs making them easier to spend/use. And that’s why the coin part of the name doesn’t really work for me… it’s not exactly money, or it’s one of the world’s most useless forms of it.

Anyway, long but salient imo if someone hasn’t posted it here already. Made just before the recent bloodbath began. Covers the beginnings of btc in the aftermath of 2008 up to today.

 

teletail

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I don't understand it all. Just been reading an article about a guy in Spain had 80,000 euro invested, the company if that the right word crashed, sand he now has 4 euros, so where is the money? Seems to me this unregulated business is just an embezzling scam, where you buy who knows what and lose it all!
It's exactly as it always is. The rich start the scam, they sucker a bunch of poor people into investing their hard earned money, then the rich skim the profits off the top and leave the losses for the poor people.
 

stratology

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Uh, I don’t have to understand the Flat Earthers to criticize them.

If you don't understand that the Earth is round, you cannot credibly criticise flat earthers.

If you don't understand why the world is not flat, you cannot credibly criticise round earthers.
 

PhoenixBill

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If you don't understand that the Earth is round, you cannot credibly criticise flat earthers.

If you don't understand why the world is not flat, you cannot credibly criticise round earthers.
Obtuse reasoning at its circular finest. I, and many of the other folks on here, have been around long enough to have seen many various money–making schemes come and go. Some of them are simple but fundamentally flawed; others are far more complex but their fundamental flaws are still easily discernible. One common trait of the complex money-making schemes: when someone starts to question them, their promoters start claiming “oh but you don’t understand how this will make you money! It’s complicated but trust me!” Obviously you are a firm proponent of the cryptocurrency craze. Me, I see this for what it is: pure speculation on buying a non-tangible “something” which isn’t backed or regulated by any government entity. If you want to “invest” in it, be my guest, and good luck.
 

stratology

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Obviously you are a firm proponent of the cryptocurrency craze.

Ouch, you obviously have not understood a single thing I posted.

It's not rocket science to understand that when you buy an NFT, all you're buying is metadata.

Criticising NFTs based on that - which is what I did in previous posts - is entirely different to saying 'I don't get it, but don't like it, because I've seen other things that I think are similar'.
 

loopfinding

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The crypto tech community is well aware of this, and working on solutions.
If I understand correctly, the reasoning behind using a blockchain vs. something like a conventional database (which allows to delete records and reverse transactions) is to keep it decentralised, and have a single global currency.


If you buy something online in places like Amazon etc., the underlying tech you see most often is an Oracle database, with SAP software on top. Transactions, even on a global level, are by default much, much faster than on a blockchain. And SAP is extremely sophisticated when it comes to adapting to financial laws in different countries.

To come anywhere near matching that in efficiency and reliability, crypto has a long way to go...

economics aside, what i don't understand is how it is "revolutionary" when it just strikes me as:

a) basically just distributed version control with a different name
b) a more inefficient version of existing decentralized networking like torrenting
 

buster poser

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economics aside, what i don't understand is how it is "revolutionary" when it just strikes me as:

a) basically just distributed version control with a different name
b) a more inefficient version of existing decentralized networking like torrenting
And as covered in an above article (and many many others) these systems inexorably drive toward centralization, hype aside. Not unlike a… pyramid.
 

stratology

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Hi! I am definitely not the same person that posted before about the hottest new coin, Markcoin, and GloBEx². I want to tell everyone about an amazing new startup called GloBEx²! I made $20,000 in just 4.1 minutes, and I want to tell everyone else how to do that instead of making another $20K in the same amount of time!

GloBEx² is mining a TDPRI coin. It is called Markcoin. It will be initially available only to TDPRI members. This crypto is going to take off! Anyone who gets in on the ground floor will make some sick bank, bro! It's still early! If everyone on TDPRI buys in we will all see mad profit. This coin is fire, bro! Crush your FOMO and get in early!

Don't listen to the haters and the old people who don't understand technology, and the opportunities of being part of the future. WEB3 is coming, and it will totally make our investment in Markcoin increase by 6,500%! Don't listen to what "they" are saying about the crypto market - we are just in the middle of a fourth price innovation cycle.

GloBEx² will also make your TDPRI profile picture into an NFT only you can own, forever, for only $55,350. This investment, along with robust purchases of Markcoin will diversify your portfolio AND have real-world impact!

OK, here's the response of a fictional crypto enthusiast to your offering:

'Wow, that sounds cool. What type of token is it? Meaning, just another ERC-20, or something original that you came up with? Could you link to the whitepaper, please? Road map? When is the ICO? If it already took place, what's your market cap? What are your tokenomics? Do you use proof of work or proof of stake?'
 

stratology

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economics aside, what i don't understand is how it is "revolutionary" when it just strikes me as:

a) basically just distributed version control with a different name
b) a more inefficient version of existing decentralized networking like torrenting

Exactly.

As I understand it, the goals are to have something that is revolutionary, because it is
- a single global currency
- decentralised
- not controlled by banks


But, like I said, I doubt that blockchain technology is the right tool to achieve that.


I thought about it in the context of the Imogen Heap 'Creative Passport' project - it aims to use blockchain - but not in the form of cryptocurrencies - to have a single global centralised system for musicians to get paid all royalties, and store information - like the type of relevant info you find on AllMusic.

Wouldn't an object oriented approach - with objects for things like 'artist name', 'gig venue', 'amplifier', 'mechanical royalty' - with the option to add new objects as required -- wouldn't that be a better technological approach than a relational database, or, worse, a blockchain?
 

THX1123

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OK, here's the response of a fictional crypto enthusiast to your offering:

'Wow, that sounds cool. What type of token is it? Meaning, just another ERC-20, or something original that you came up with? Could you link to the whitepaper, please? Road map? When is the ICO? If it already took place, what's your market cap? What are your tokenomics? Do you use proof of work or proof of stake?'
Here a behind the scenes view of what would need to be done prior to responding:

1. Plagiarize Vitalik Buterin to produce a White Paper
2. Create a bunch of domains for Crypto-centric advice sites and populate them with glowingly optimistic predictions of Markcoin performance
3. Bribe several wealthy guitarists to claim they've purchased Markcoin and to say they will only take gig guarantees in Markcoin in the future
4. Buy more domain names that game search engines to click-funnel to the domains I set up above
5. Watch 30 hours of Youtube so I can cobble together answers to the other questions about all those acronyms
6. Get a hot female celebrity to hold up a placard of an NFT of my profile picture she says she bought on late-night talk shows
7. Sell all my Markcoin immediately
 

buster poser

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Here a behind the scenes view of what would need to be done prior to responding:

1. Plagiarize Vitalik Buterin to produce a White Paper
2. Create a bunch of domains for Crypto-centric advice sites and populate them with glowingly optimistic predictions of Markcoin performance
3. Bribe several wealthy guitarists to claim they've purchased Markcoin and to say they will only take gig guarantees in Markcoin in the future
4. Buy more domain names that game search engines to click-funnel to the domains I set up above
5. Watch 30 hours of Youtube so I can cobble together answers to the other questions about all those acronyms
6. Get a hot female celebrity to hold up a placard of an NFT of my profile picture she says she bought on late-night talk shows
7. Sell all my Markcoin immediately
en fuego
 

stratology

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Here a behind the scenes view of what would need to be done prior to responding:

1. Plagiarize Vitalik Buterin to produce a White Paper
2. Create a bunch of domains for Crypto-centric advice sites and populate them with glowingly optimistic predictions of Markcoin performance
3. Bribe several wealthy guitarists to claim they've purchased Markcoin and to say they will only take gig guarantees in Markcoin in the future
4. Buy more domain names that game search engines to click-funnel to the domains I set up above
5. Watch 30 hours of Youtube so I can cobble together answers to the other questions about all those acronyms
6. Get a hot female celebrity to hold up a placard of an NFT of my profile picture she says she bought on late-night talk shows
7. Sell all my Markcoin immediately

Yes, almost there. Don't sell your Markcoin immediately, wait till it has maximum pumped value shortly after the ICO. And don't forget setting up Markcoin Twitter accounts, with thousands of bot followers.


BTW, this reminds me a little of TommyCoin - genuine Irish cryptocurrency. Not related to football player Tommy Coyne in any way, of course. It had a website, asking for donations, promising that TommyCoin would 'go intershtellar' on launch. Brilliant. Wondering why the website is gone now.. :)

Especially as a vast majority voted to make TommyCoin the new official currency in Ireland, instead of the Euro.
 

THX1123

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Yes, almost there. Don't sell your Markcoin immediately, wait till it has maximum pumped value shortly after the ICO. And don't forget setting up Markcoin Twitter accounts, with thousands of bot followers.


BTW, this reminds me a little of TommyCoin - genuine Irish cryptocurrency. Not related to football player Tommy Coyne in any way, of course. It had a website, asking for donations, promising that TommyCoin would 'go intershtellar' on launch. Brilliant. Wondering why the website is gone now.. :)

Especially as a vast majority voted to make TommyCoin the new official currency in Ireland, instead of the Euro.
Dang it! I forgot the Twitter part!

Maybe they shoulda called it CraicCoin heh heh
 

chris m.

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Exactly.

And I would add that, for a rational person, understanding something in the first place is also a requirement if you want to criticise it.
Well....I've actually looked into it quite a bit, reading a lot of articles, and I have an MBA with a specialty in finance, as well as other advanced degrees, so I have the ability to grok pretty complicated things. I reasonably understand the block chain concept, and I also understand why so much electricity is being spent to solve complex encryptions in order to generate more coins.

But one of the hallmarks of something being too good to be true is when the valuation dynamics don't really make sense based on the fundamentals, except perhaps as a result of pure speculation.

As noted by others, it seems to me the only way these things are worth what people claim they are worth is if in the long run they actually do become a significant part of the "real" economy, replacing to a large degree current systems for exchanging value, and there is a huge barrier to entry on that front-- so far the real economy shows no signs of needing it.

General relativity, quantum mechanics, and advanced mathematics are very hard to understand because they are intrinsically quite esoteric. Most investments by comparison are pretty basic mathematics and statistics, combined with various assumptions about how macro-economies are likely to move over time, and how specific industries and firms are likely to perform within that macro-economic environment.

For example, the much vaunted Black Scholes model is just a fancy way of dealing with volatility based on some fundamental probability distribution assumptions: from Wikipedia--

Black-Scholes posits that instruments, such as stock shares or futures contracts, will have a lognormal distribution of prices following a random walk with constant drift and volatility. Using this assumption and factoring in other important variables, the equation derives the price of a European-style call option.

What I'm trying to say is that if an investment is super complicated to understand-- such as CDOs as another recent example-- the fact that it is really, really hard to understand is actually a valid reason to criticize it.
 

stratology

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Well....I've actually looked into it quite a bit, reading a lot of articles, and I have an MBA with a specialty in finance, as well as other advanced degrees, so I have the ability to grok pretty complicated things. I reasonably understand the block chain concept, and I also understand why so much electricity is being spent to solve complex encryptions in order to generate more coins.

But one of the hallmarks of something being too good to be true is when the valuation dynamics don't really make sense based on the fundamentals, except perhaps as a result of pure speculation.

As noted by others, it seems to me the only way these things are worth what people claim they are worth is if in the long run they actually do become a significant part of the "real" economy, replacing to a large degree current systems for exchanging value, and there is a huge barrier to entry on that front-- so far the real economy shows no signs of needing it.

General relativity, quantum mechanics, and advanced mathematics are very hard to understand because they are intrinsically quite esoteric. Most investments by comparison are pretty basic mathematics and statistics, combined with various assumptions about how macro-economies are likely to move over time, and how specific industries and firms are likely to perform within that macro-economic environment.

For example, the much vaunted Black Scholes model is just a fancy way of dealing with volatility based on some fundamental probability distribution assumptions: from Wikipedia--

Black-Scholes posits that instruments, such as stock shares or futures contracts, will have a lognormal distribution of prices following a random walk with constant drift and volatility. Using this assumption and factoring in other important variables, the equation derives the price of a European-style call option.

What I'm trying to say is that if an investment is super complicated to understand-- such as CDOs as another recent example-- the fact that it is really, really hard to understand is actually a valid reason to criticize it.

Ah, I'm afraid you may have misunderstood my response. I was speaking in general terms - I cannot effectively criticise something I don't understand - not, by any means, implying that you don't understand it.

I'm talking about understanding the basics.

I completely agree that deliberate attempts to make something seem unnecessarily complicated are a tool to obfuscate, and suggest value that is not there.

So, bottom line - I think that you and me actually mostly agree when it comes to cryptocurrencies. I agree with your informed, valid criticisms of crypto.
 

PhoenixBill

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I’m selling invisible empty boxes. How big are they? Well, we can’t actually measure them, because…well, [quiet whisper] they don’t actually exist. But we’ve built an elaborate warehouse to hold them! Let me tell you about this elaborate warehouse, and the security system around the warehouse. And we’ve got one heckuva system to register who owns these invisible boxes, let me tell you all the details! Oh, what do we do with these invisible boxes? Well, we use them if people want to buy or sell them, if you want to buy or sell them we have an elaborate tracking system on that. What are they worth? Well, how much do you want to pay for one, and how much can you get for the ones you already own?
 

stratology

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I’m selling invisible empty boxes. How big are they? Well, we can’t actually measure them, because…well, [quiet whisper] they don’t actually exist. But we’ve built an elaborate warehouse to hold them! Let me tell you about this elaborate warehouse, and the security system around the warehouse. And we’ve got one heckuva system to register who owns these invisible boxes, let me tell you all the details! Oh, what do we do with these invisible boxes? Well, we use them if people want to buy or sell them, if you want to buy or sell them we have an elaborate tracking system on that. What are they worth? Well, how much do you want to pay for one, and how much can you get for the ones you already own?

Bitcoin is legal tender in El Salvador. Meaning, it functions exactly as any other kind of currency when you're there.

There has been a lot of - justified - criticism about the adoption of Bitcoin as legal tender in El Salvador, but pretending it doesn't exist does not help.
 




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