Bitcoin - Cryptocurrency

boris bubbanov

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This is actually incorrect. Most cryptocurrencies are easier to track than bank transactions, because of the public nature - you can use a blockchain explorer to view all kinds of transactions.

There are a few privacy minded cryptocurrencies, like Monero, but if you're a criminal and think you're safe because you do transactions in Bitcoin, you may be in for a surprise.
I've got to comply with the basic rules of courtesy, of this forum, and that makes it impossible for me to tell you what I think.

And for that I apologize.
 

getbent

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Why would a currency be an investment? Isn't the point of a currency to be a stable means to facilitate transactions?
folks who are investors in dollar amounts that are hard to completely grasp invest in money all the time. Playing exchange rates has a whole business to it. So, I think we mostly think of money the way you say, but don't sleep on the people who play in this very real market.
 

chris m.

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At this point I think folks that live in places with unstable currencies would rather go with hard goods or the U.S. dollar. I lived in Brazil in 1987 during hyperinflation of 45% a month and that's what folks did-- as soon as they got paid they went out and converted it to hard goods, or U.S. dollars.

IMO crypto has way too many problems to ever achieve its promises. Too much speculation, too much volatility, too many scams, too much successful hacking leading to big losses, easy to lose your money if you just lose your secret codes, too much energy consumption, too much pump and dump, etc. When everybody and his brother is pushing crypto you can see what a big bubble it is.

When professional disc golfer Ricky Wysocki signed a huge contract with Dynamic Discs just before the 2022 season, he asked for his $400k signing bonus to be in BitCoin. I suspect he is regretting that decision right now.

Just like GameStop, the HODL bros are taking newbies to the cleaners ("hold on for dear life"...i.e., don't sell your holdings even when they're tanking....but meanwhile the smart money is ignoring the HODL cries and quietly selling as fast as they can).
 

buster poser

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When professional disc golfer Ricky Wysocki signed a huge contract with Dynamic Discs just before the 2022 season, he asked for his $400k signing bonus to be in BitCoin. I suspect he is regretting that decision right now.
There've been a few NFL players who've already learned to regret the decision to take payment in Bitcoin.
 

getbent

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well, like stocks, you don't lose anything unless you sell. it is only at that point that you have lost. Until then, it is down and you either ride it out, or sell and lose. The big players bet on that.

in the great crash of 2008, I 'lost' 2m. I decided not to sell. it works out if the holdings are solid. I have a friend who LOVES penny stocks. He budgets X amount each year to invest. It swings mightily... but, over 10 years, he is WAY ahead.

One of my childhood friends is a private equity whiz and he is a big fan of bitcoin. I dunno if bitcoin will make it or not, it isn't in my immediate plans only because I don't need the reward that the risk incurs.
 

chris m.

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well, like stocks, you don't lose anything unless you sell. it is only at that point that you have lost. Until then, it is down and you either ride it out, or sell and lose. The big players bet on that.

in the great crash of 2008, I 'lost' 2m. I decided not to sell. it works out if the holdings are solid. I have a friend who LOVES penny stocks. He budgets X amount each year to invest. It swings mightily... but, over 10 years, he is WAY ahead.

One of my childhood friends is a private equity whiz and he is a big fan of bitcoin. I dunno if bitcoin will make it or not, it isn't in my immediate plans only because I don't need the reward that the risk incurs.
Unlike stocks sometimes you lose because hackers manage to steal it from you. For a while, anyway.

 

stratology

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Bitcoin and Money Laundering are a match made in heaven.

Again, bitcoin transactions are comparatively easy to track. A few recent examples of arrests made because criminals thought bitcoin transactions are not traceable are here, here and here.


I find the whole idea of blaming software, and tech in general, for criminal activity bizarre.

"Phones and extortion are a match made in heaven" because you can call someone to make a ransom demand?

If you want to launder money, doing it with physical dollar bills is much, much safer than doing it through crypto currencies. So, let's ban the US dollar. [/s]
 
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stratology

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I've got to comply with the basic rules of courtesy, of this forum, and that makes it impossible for me to tell you what I think.

And for that I apologize.


???

We're talking about technology, I'm making a point by explaining some of the basics of tech, so why would you break forum rules if you want to make a technology argument that disproves my point?



Sure, we all frequently get spam emails that say something like 'we cracked your password, transfer 0.4 bitcoin or we send your browser history to all your contacts'.

But the guys who send these, like many criminals, are idiots. They demand bitcoin because they are too stupid to understand that, with a little effort, it can be traced.
Links to some recent arrests in my post above..

The video I posted earlier shows some of the slightly more sophisticated scams.


And - if you see my other posts - I'm interested in the technology, but I am definitely not suggesting that anyone invests in cryptocurrencies right now.

I do think things like NFTs have potential as income for musicians in the future, but at this stage, the technology simply is not advanced enough to do so in any meaningful way.
 

stratology

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Unlike stocks sometimes you lose because hackers manage to steal it from you. For a while, anyway.


OK, the article from the Justice Department that you linked to is quite good.

Quote:
“Today’s arrests, and the department’s largest financial seizure ever, show that cryptocurrency is not a safe haven for criminals,” said Deputy Attorney General Lisa O. Monaco. “In a futile effort to maintain digital anonymity, the defendants laundered stolen funds through a labyrinth of cryptocurrency transactions. Thanks to the meticulous work of law enforcement, the department once again showed how it can and will follow the money, no matter what form it takes.”


Now, the article states that a crypto exchange was hacked. Which is analogous to a bank robbery.
Money laundering has been around for a long time, long before cryptocurrencies were a thing.

And maybe one of the most common pieces of advice you get from crypto enthusiasts is to not leave any assets on a wallet managed by the crypto exchange - use your own wallet.
 

stratology

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Can you lose a key to a bank and then whoops a quarter bil is locked inside forever?


Losing the key to your crypto wallet is the same as losing your physical wallet in real life.

That being said - losing assets due to losing a password is one of the obvious weaknesses of the technology.
As is the nature of blockchains, which means, if you transfer money to a wrong account because you mix up a single digit of the recipient's wallet address, there is no way to recover the money, because transactions cannot be undone.


The crypto tech community is well aware of this, and working on solutions.
If I understand correctly, the reasoning behind using a blockchain vs. something like a conventional database (which allows to delete records and reverse transactions) is to keep it decentralised, and have a single global currency.


If you buy something online in places like Amazon etc., the underlying tech you see most often is an Oracle database, with SAP software on top. Transactions, even on a global level, are by default much, much faster than on a blockchain. And SAP is extremely sophisticated when it comes to adapting to financial laws in different countries.

To come anywhere near matching that in efficiency and reliability, crypto has a long way to go...
 

getbent

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Unlike stocks sometimes you lose because hackers manage to steal it from you. For a while, anyway.


true... but....

in my experience, when something new comes along... there are lots of scary stories and TONS of fear and most of it is ignorance, while some is true. I think bitcoin may end up being like that... and it is why I read and listen (not so much to breathless 'we're all gonna die') stories and try to avoid being the dude who was freaked out by something only to figure it out and see the value.

In the industrial revolution, we had lots of bank robberies, so, this stuff happens while we figure it out. And Bernie Madoff taught us even smart people can get ripped off...

I'm in a 'wait and see' spot... one of my other friends does a consulting side hustle, he just got a nice payday for some work he did (like 200K) and he is putting his toes in to bitcoin. It is free money, he just wants to see what will happen.
 

getbent

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Can you lose a key to a bank and then whoops a quarter bil is locked inside forever?


We had a company get together in the cayman islands once. Good luck to you if you lose sight of your numbered acct. As far as I know, that money is still yours, but you will never access it. So, kinda.
 

Area51

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At this point I think of it as pyramid/Ponzi scheme. I'm sure a lot of people will make money, and many will lose in the end. Kind of like the housing boom was - at its peak I couldn't imagine who could afford to buy my simple house (but what did I know. Lol). Those that got out in time were the winners.

Likewise, who's really using cryptocurrency to buy anything? What's really backing it up? You bought a $100US worth several years back and now it's worth thousands. But it's worth that because people are buying on speculation, not because any real economic reason. If it was, then all the best economies of the world have become third world countries.

For example, someone in a Germany buying that whatever compared to me in the US will seem less expensive. But we're talking ~10%ish. Not enough of a difference to cancel my trip to Germany. Whereas someone living in cryptoland would think everything is cheap anywhere and I surely couldn't afford to go there. Every hotel would cost thousands of $US
 

PhoenixBill

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It strikes me as a contrived solution in search of a problem, with a whole bunch of speculation mixed in. Do banks really have a problem transferring large sums of money the traditional way? No. And the whole premise behind bitcoin mining? Using a supercomputer to figure out block transaction algorithms somehow earns you money…right. Call me a Luddite if you will, but history is full of speculatory schemes that eventually came crashing down. I prefer to lose my money the old fashioned way…women and guitars.
 

gimmeatele

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I don't understand it all. Just been reading an article about a guy in Spain had 80,000 euro invested, the company if that the right word crashed, sand he now has 4 euros, so where is the money? Seems to me this unregulated business is just an embezzling scam, where you buy who knows what and lose it all!
 

stratology

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The best investment advice I’ve ever had is one should not invest in something one cannot understand. The other good advice is- if it seems too good to be true, it’s probably not true.

Exactly.

And I would add that, for a rational person, understanding something in the first place is also a requirement if you want to criticise it.
 




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