Best primer for dupli-color paint.

[Bugeater281]

Ive searched the threads without much luck. I have a poplar body ready to paint. After a bunch of reading I’ve decided to go with dupli color. My question is what’s the best sanding sealer to use? Since poplar will certainly absorb some finish. I have some nitro lacquer laying around I could spray or brush on, I have shellac. What would you recommend?

 

[RodeoTex]

I'd use either a lacquer based sanding sealer or a vinyl sealer.

As for actual primer I'd use the Duplicolor brand.

 

[Flakey]

Vinyl sanding sealer (Behlen's if you can get it). Then duplicolor sandable primer. color coat. finally your clear.

 

[Bugeater281]

I don’t usually paint guitar bodies. So I’d really hate to buy a can of sanding sealer I’ll only use once. I’ve read that de waxed shallac works fine as a sealer. Is there really any drawbacks to shellac? I also have experience using shellac as a sealer.

 

[old wrench]

I learned about paint the hard way, through trial and error, and I'm pretty sure I've made most of the mistakes that a novice painter can make .

I started out using whatever was on hand, easy to obtain, and relatively cheap.

For lower cost paint like you find at hardware or big box stores I found that sticking to one brand or one brand's particular line of paint was the best bet for compatibility between primer, color coat, and finish.

I'd say the time spent in actually applying paint is only about 10% or so of the total time spent on a finish. So, ya definitely want to use products that are compatible .

When in doubt, do a complete test piece using the same products ya intend to use on your project. If I would have understood the importance of doing so back when I started out, I could have saved myself a lot of time which I could have used to make other mistakes .





Best Regards,
Geo.

 

[Flakey]

I don’t usually paint guitar bodies. So I’d really hate to buy a can of sanding sealer I’ll only use once. I’ve read that de waxed shallac works fine as a sealer. Is there really any drawbacks to shellac? I also have experience using shellac as a sealer.

I have and all kinds. If you use shellac as a sealer make sure you let it dry a very long time. Weeks if you can. This is because when you buff out your finish with any mechanical device; buffing wheel, pad on drill, pad on orbital sander, etc. you will create heat. The melting temp. of shellac is lower than lacquer so you run the risk of the shellac sealer coat softening and the bubbling up under the rest of your finish. Vinyl sanding sealer is much easier to use IMO and I use about a can to seal a body. You need to get your sealer coat as smooth as possible, about 320 grit and the end grain will suck up a lot more than you think before you have enough material on it so its smooth. I'll assume you are using rattle cans so you will need to do more sanding to get your surfaces smooth than you would under perfect conditions (controlled humidity, temp, in the room, spray booth, gun/compressor, etc.).

You can spray paint without primer , like Gibson does, but primer helps with paint adhesion, so that's why I use it. In addition, like you stated, a sealer coat blocks the wood from absorbing primer/ paint color so if you decided one day to strip the finish off and go natural with it you're not sanding the old color out of the wood. It makes life easier.

Cost wise it's cheaper to use Behlen's Vinyl Sealer for stringed instruments than shellac.

Just one sample of prices from one source.

Vinyl sanding sealer cost:

9.99

https://www.rockler.com/behlen-vinyl-sealer-for-stringed-instruments-13-oz

Shellac cost:

$13.99

https://www.rockler.com/zinsser-clear-spray-shellac

 

[Bugeater281]

I have and all kinds. If you use shellac as a sealer make sure you let it dry a very long time. Weeks if you can. This is because when you buff out your finish with any mechanical device; buffing wheel, pad on drill, pad on orbital sander, etc. you will create heat. The melting temp. of shellac is lower than lacquer so you run the risk of the shellac sealer coat softening and the bubbling up under the rest of your finish. Vinyl sanding sealer is much easier to use IMO and I use about a can to seal a body. You need to get your sealer coat as smooth as possible, about 320 grit and the end grain will suck up a lot more than you think before you have enough material on it so its smooth. I'll assume you are using rattle cans so you will need to do more sanding to get your surfaces smooth than you would under perfect conditions (controlled humidity, temp, in the room, spray booth, gun/compressor, etc.).

You can spray paint without primer , like Gibson does, but primer helps with paint adhesion, so that's why I use it. In addition, like you stated, a sealer coat blocks the wood from absorbing primer/ paint color so if you decided one day to strip the finish off and go natural with it you're not sanding the old color out of the wood. It makes life easier.

Cost wise it's cheaper to use Behlen's Vinyl Sealer for stringed instruments than shellac.

Just one sample of prices from one source.

Vinyl sanding sealer cost:

9.99

https://www.rockler.com/behlen-vinyl-sealer-for-stringed-instruments-13-oz

Shellac cost:

$13.99

https://www.rockler.com/zinsser-clear-spray-shellac

I do have a spray gun, does vinyl sealer have any place in sealing natural finishes bodies?

 

[Flakey]

I do have a spray gun, does vinyl sealer have any place in sealing natural finishes bodies?

All the time. Vinyl sealer has more solids and sands easier than lacquer so you start building your finish base quickly and smooth. As the song goes, it's all about that base, about that base. Plus, it makes the overall finish more durable to protect the body of the instrument. If your going to do a burst or tint you would shoot your tinted lacquer over this sealer coat to color your body. Just for additional info. I mix my tint coat 50/50 thinner to lacquer ratio. Just enough colored lacquer to put the color where I want it and flash off in place.

 

[Vespa_One]

Do you have to use sanding sealer or can the first coat be primer?

 

[CapnCrunch]

Are you painting a solid color? I've done two guitars with Dupli color metal specks, and I've sprayed about 4 or 5 pine wood derby cars with it. I just used the Dupli Color primer and it worked perfectly. I'd be careful with Lacquer or sealer meant for lacquer as Dupli Color is an Acrylic. If you use their primer, there is no need for a separate sanding sealer. It's a light gray color so it will show if you later break through your color coats.

If you are doing something opaque, semi clear or clear, then disregard the above, and I would suggest you use shellac as a sealer.

 

[Bugeater281]

Are you painting a solid color? I've done two guitars with Dupli color metal specks, and I've sprayed about 4 or 5 pine wood derby cars with it. I just used the Dupli Color primer and it worked perfectly. I'd be careful with Lacquer or sealer meant for lacquer as Dupli Color is an Acrylic. If you use their primer, there is no need for a separate sanding sealer. It's a light gray color so it will show if you later break through your color coats.

If you are doing something opaque, semi clear or clear, then disregard the above, and I would suggest you use shellac as a sealer.

I should state I’m using dupli perfect match, which is an acrylic lacquer. I’m doing the universal black metallic. Im still debating how to paint it. I may paint the whole thing, or just the top. Or I could just let my neighbor take it and paint it. He restores old cars and is a fantastic painter. I just don’t know how compatible the auto painting method work on wood.

 

[Buckocaster51]

However you do it, do you body work before you apply color.

If you know what I mean

 

[CapnCrunch]

I should state I’m using dupli perfect match, which is an acrylic lacquer. I’m doing the universal black metallic. Im still debating how to paint it. I may paint the whole thing, or just the top. Or I could just let my neighbor take it and paint it. He restores old cars and is a fantastic painter. I just don’t know how compatible the auto painting method work on wood.

If your neighbor has the equipment and experience and is a fantastic painter, I would offer to help him and have him impart some knowledge while he sprayed my guitar. If he is painting cars he is probably spraying acrylic enamel or maybe urethane. These products work great on wood, and despite the hype over "thin skin" nitro Lacquer, there is no magic mojo in lacquer vs. urethane. If I recall correctly, PRS uses urethane. I do know that they do not use lacquer, and certainly not nitro.

If you're going to build more guitars, you may want to invest in spray equipment and learn to do it yourself. However, if you're going to do one or two, I'd buy the neighbor plenty of his favorite drinks and keep him well lubricated for a couple of projects. It will be way cheaper, even if you're buying high end bourbon.

 

[CapnCrunch]

However you do it, do you body work before you apply color.

If you know what I mean

+1000 if you're going to spray gloss black.

 

[schmee]

My only caution is this; I tried a Krylon Blue Ocean Breeze and Krylon primer on a cheap body once. It wouldn't harden! Stayed gummy forever. I threw the body away eventually. I guess Krylon isnt for wood or something, never did figure out what I did wrong.

 

[Buckocaster51]

My only caution is this; I tried a Krylon Blue Ocean Breeze and Krylon primer on a cheap body once. It wouldn't harden! Stayed gummy forever. I threw the body away eventually. I guess Krylon isnt for wood or something, never did figure out what I did wrong.

Several years ago Krylon changed formulations from something that was lacquer-like to something that is more enamel-like

These days Duplicolor is more preferred around here

 

[Silverface]

I have some nitro lacquer laying around I could spray or brush on, I have shellac. What would you recommend?

Neither - see below.

So I’d really hate to buy a can of sanding sealer I’ll only use once.

You need to. You'll need it anyway to practice your application. And if you DON'T practice you'll probably end up using TWICE the amount of material!

Sanding sealer is made to do the job that needs to be done,. It has filler pigments and specific lacquer resin additives that fill the pores of the wood and prevent the finish from soaking in - even after sanding if applied correctly. Standard lacquer does not; shellac does not.

Lacquer sanding sealer will also allow the subsequent coats to melt into it, creating one coat of lacquer that penetrates into the wood for enhanced adhesion. Standard lacquer would let the Duplicolor soak DOWN into the wood - not just melt into the sealer - because of the lack of filler /sealer pigments.

And shellac would simply provide a surface the lacquer would need to physically grab onto by mechanical adhesion. It would not chemically bond at all.

Lacquer sanding sealer is the only appropriate material for the job.

You should probably read up on lacquer finishing systems - maybe start with the ReRanch site - as there seems to be lack of understanding of what specific products are needed, product compatibility, application, etc.

And no matter what you use, apply the WHOLE system - from prep to buffing - on scrap before applying a drop in your guitar body!

You have to practice to learn how the products work; how to refine applying each coat in 3 very thin passes (the first color "coat" should not cover completely - if it does you are applying WAY too thickly!; how coats build, melt and begin to "flow"; how to fix small runs; how many clear coats you need to get it smooth etc.

When you have practiced and refined your technique the only surface wet sanding you'll need would be starting with 1500 at the roughest - any rougher and you haven't worked out your application technique yet.

And be SURE to wear a cartridge type respirator and full goggles when spraying. Dust masks are so useless you might as well be sucking in overspray with NO mask!

Several years ago Krylon changed formulations from something that was lacquer-like to something that is more enamel-like

Correct - it is no longer lacquer except for a few products specifically labeled as such.

 

[Burn Yesterday]

If you want to experience dewaxed shellac this guy can fix you up:

https://www.shellac.net/dewaxed_shellac.html