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Best Dumble clone

Discussion in 'Amp Tech Center' started by Jrat, Jun 6, 2019.

  1. MMARSH

    MMARSH Tele-Meister

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    Synergy SYN1 with OS module gets you a nice dumble-like preamp. I pair it with a Two Notes C.A.B. M for cab sim and either straight to desk or through a powered speaker or both. Sounds really good and can be used in many ways (in the effects loop of your amp, for e.g.)
     
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  2. FenderLover

    FenderLover Poster Extraordinaire

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    Yup.

    If money were no object and you buy a real Dumble, there's no guarantee that you'll even like it. Truth is, a great sounding amp doesn't need to sound like something else. It's adoration of the brand that gets people all wet. That's fine, but often misses the mark.

    A good pedal or preamp platform into a clean amp is the easiest and fastest way to have everything. If an amp-only solution is the goal, a true 2-channel amp will be easier to dial in. Check out what LA Mike said in post #9.
     
  3. Michael A.

    Michael A. Tele-Afflicted Ad Free Member

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    For only $800, you can have the pre-amp section of a Dumble!

     
  4. gtrplr

    gtrplr Tele-Holic

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    I have one of these. Don’t know if it sounds like a Dumble, but it’s a nice smooth overdrive and is one of the few distortion pedals my Squier Cabronita likes. For the price, get two.
     
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  5. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Can anyone explain to me (as if I'm a big dummy) what "note-flipping" actually means?
    You can even do it patronizingly, if you wish. When I google, all I get is real estate/financial stuff, and the closest I can find is musical note flip flops
    [​IMG]

    We'll save "crystal lattice" for some other time
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
  6. rogb

    rogb Tele-Afflicted

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    In reality, the 100w cleans are more (here we go...) "3-D, sparkling, bass like floating on a football field of marshmallows" than the 50w cleans, I would avoid 2x6V6 cleans, there ain't gonna be enough headroom.

    The 100w OD is also superior, even though the 50w is great- until you go 100w.

    D-style, I've built 2x 50w and 2 x 100w and a single-ended 5w, oh and a Tweedle Dee Deluxe and an AB763 with Dumble Ultraphonix mods.

    100w 2nd Gen is the best for me. Especially with a Thiele type cab (TL-806) And don't worry about volume, you can control overall level with a Dumbelator as master, even at home!
    I would give the Lunchbox things a miss unless strictly for practice/ small jams/ convenience/overall cost considerations.

    And my 50w JCM800 has beautiful cleans, especially from low input. Speaker G12-65 Heritage.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
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  7. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Think of playing pick harmonics/ pinch harmonics/ false harmonics, with a distorted sound.
    (Not really sure what the correct term is)

    Note flipping is where you play a normal note, and during the sustain, it gradually changes into that harmonic.
     
  8. rogb

    rogb Tele-Afflicted

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    Easy - listen to Scott Lerner here - bloom into (a kind of flip) flip (oh yeah)

    http://www.scottlernermusic.com/2010/OjaiWingedCaminvt.mp3

    http://www.scottlernermusic.com/2010/ojcen320x.mp3

    And 11 pages of flippin, grumblin and trollin here - enjoy!
    https://ampgarage.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13144&hilit=flipping
     
  9. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Seems like in the modern internet climate one cannot get away with claiming that they can't get the clean sounds they like from a 20w amp.
    Almost like propaganda, the voice of the majority insists on script that you only need 12-15w and if you can't get everything you need from these small amps you're doing it wrong.

    I just find the ease of lower frequencies can't happen with a small OT the way it can happen with a bigger OT, and it takes more power tube capacity for the whole thing to happen.
    That's my assumption any how, in terms of what holds back 12-22w amps from producing bass clarity as well as treble clarity.
    Even 100w amps run out of bass clarity at some point, but the volume then is high enough that in practical use we don't reach that point.
    Might be based on the typical volume of the bass drum or mixed electric bass guitar in a big room.

    Certainly or presumably a 20w amp can be turned down enough for the bottom end to have effortless clarity, but at that low volume the amp is not as loud as the stage monitors, or it gets hard enough to hear without being right up against it.
    Also at such low volume, the strings and speaker are not a loop, which is for me a part of the function of the electric guitar.

    On an acoustic, strings and the sound board are a loop, interacting.
    Something is missing in an electric when playing at volume lower than where the speaker starts interacting with the strings.
    Seems like the volume where the speaker drives the strings is a bit higher than the volume at which a 2x6v6/ 2xel84 amp still has effortless clean bottom end.

    I'd agree that even a 50w amp is limited at producing that effortless clean bottom volume, but it crosses the threshold of driving the strings without clipping the bass. Assuming the OT is big enough.
    I don't think the OT in the Fender Bandmaster/ Pro Reverb is quite big enough though, or it's a limiting factor in that function.
    May also be the operating voltages, but those amps are limited despite being "bigger" amps.

    Listening to popular guitar music though, lots of players seem to prefer bass that's not really clear at all.
    So for these players, none of this makes any sense, and 15w is truly enough.
     
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  10. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Not sure if it was the preamp product, the SFPRRI, or the player, but I didn't hear even a tiny trace of a D sound in the demo.
    Timing the sustain of the clean notes?
    I get longer sustain from a Tele unplugged...
     
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  11. ucnick

    ucnick Tele-Meister Gold Supporter

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  12. ucnick

    ucnick Tele-Meister Gold Supporter

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    This is actually a pretty decent little pedal, I bought one to use on my backup board, not quite as much gain as The Dude and maybe a little less thick in the mids, but it sounds pretty danged good, esp for the price.
     
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  13. rogb

    rogb Tele-Afflicted

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    That's the 100w 2nd Gen rig on the right, lunchbox it ain't, but not really massive compared to the Tele next to it, I'd say compact in fact, but so much headroom and smooth bass, especially when you get that loop (as you put it) going!

    IMG_20160530_142702.jpg
     
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  14. JD0x0

    JD0x0 Poster Extraordinaire

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    Another note on the Note flipping feedback thing: Well tuned D-Style amps will have that behavior at very tame volume/gain levels compared to a lot of common amps. Marshalls can do the Note flipping feedback thing a bit, too, but you basically need to push it into that with tons of volume and gain, and orienting the guitar correctly, with respect to the speakers. The D-style amps do it pretty effortlessly, and very controllably, IMO.
     
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  15. Silverface

    Silverface Poster Extraordinaire Platinum Supporter

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    I don't find that at all, and I think - in most cases - it's more something you become conditioned to than a "reality".

    The only difference I notice is that the lower-output amps don't have the "physical response" of a big amp cranked. That's what can take some adjustment for many players. It did for me. But if the lower-output amp is mic'd and run through a quality PA (and mixed/EQ'd by someone knowledgeable) it can be every bit the bone-shaking equal of the "bigger" amp.

    It's not a matter of "less iron" or power tube capacity at all -

    This is a great example - I have used this .1 watt clean/.5 watt distorted ZVex Nano micro-tube head through a mic'd single-Greenback cabinet - with a full band (drums, large bass rig, another guitarist with a 50W Mesa, a real B3/Leslie rig, an electric piano...plus vocals) and been able to rattle the walls like I was playing through a Marshall stack.

    Using an MXR effects sized, 2-tube amp powered by a 12VDC, 1.5amp wall-wart (250VDC internal voltage). 2x6021W dual-triode tubes, 16 ohm OT:
    IMG_6777.jpeg

    Celestion Greenback - radio cab.JPG

    It's not power, or the weight of the iron, or the power capabilities of the tubes - it's having well-matched components installed in a circuit that optimizes their functions - and is run at optimized settings.

    This is an extreme...although very real...example, but for decades - since 1972 - I have used the lowest output amp I could in each specific venue - the one that could be run near the top of its headroom with guitar controls rolled back a bit. This allowed enough control manipulation for solos with a little more to slide into output stage saturation.

    The only thing a big, high-output provided were the abilities to create TOO much volume or run inefficiently without driving the output stage or speakers optimally.

    I've taught other players this type of amp usage, and as a tech have worked with dozens of players to optimize their gear and help them select the best group (usually 3-4) of amps that covered the styles of music and types of venues they played.

    This type of setup isn't the same for touring pros, arena and large hall stages, most outdoor festivals (or metal or hardcore styles) - but works great for 90% of the players that do club work. There's a slight learning curve (and sometimes some resistance to overcome) - but it works. Most players I know locally work this way.
     
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  16. Owenmoney

    Owenmoney Tele-Afflicted

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    So what you’re really saying is just buy a real nice tube amp you like and make your own sound ? Right !


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  17. rogb

    rogb Tele-Afflicted

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    You're missing the point.
    It's nothing to do with near saturation or rattling walls.
    Go over to Amp Garage and do some reading. There's a LOT to learn about Dumble - and smooth solid low frequency response at all levels is just the tip of the iceberg.
     
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  18. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

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    rogb just told Silverface there's lots to learn about Dumble. hoooo boy
     
  19. L.A. Mike

    L.A. Mike Tele-Afflicted

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    Anyone here who has plugged into a Fender Twin Reverb and played it above 5 for any length of time, and then played a Fender Deluxe Reverb or Princeton the same way, will know what the difference is between +-20 watts and 85 watts.
    It's all in the presence and response and tone and sustain that the Twin has compared to a Deluxe.
    Sure, a Deluxe is a fine amp for what it is, but what it isn't is a Twin.
    Those who want to convince themselves and others that a 100 watt Dumble and a 20 watt 6V6 clone (or a pedal into a Deluxe Reverb) are essentially the same thing only works on someone who's never played a 6L6 powered big transformer amp loud in a band situation.
    I still own a 100/60 watt Mesa Mark I that I bought new back in the late 70s. And I have a '65 Super Reverb. Both of these amps have a presence that is formidable. You can't get it with a little amp.
    I've played 3 different Dumbles that were owned by friends of mine. I've felt and heard what those amps are all about. They are intimidating until you learn how to control them. Then they are heaven.
     
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  20. joebloggs13

    joebloggs13 Tele-Afflicted

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    I recently purchased a Reeves Custom 50. I understand where you are coming from. A 20W 6V6 DRRI or Princeton cannot compare to my Reeves, which has partridge transformers and 2 EL34s. High powered Twins are in the same ballpark. I have never tried one, but would like to. Heavy iron really is something that has to be experienced for anyone wanting a true Dumble clone.
    As always, this is only my opinion. YMMV:)
     
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