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Basic questions for spraying

Discussion in 'Finely Finished' started by ElectricNewbie, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. ElectricNewbie

    ElectricNewbie TDPRI Member

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    Most of my finishing has been french polished and other hand applied acoustic guitars, but now that I've made some electrics, I figure I better get a little fancier. I'm just finishing up a tele for a friend of mine, and want to spray it.

    While I'm waiting for my HVLP to arrive, I've been pondering and reading archives here. I can't get a good grip on what's going on in the neck pocket. I see lots of guys use screw on handles. Some fit snugly, others are much narrower. Some don't use a handle and paint the whole pocket. Some mask it completely.

    So having essentially no spraying experience, I've come up with a few thoughts and questions I haven't found answers to elsewhere.

    1) What is my ideal goal for the edges around the pocket? Do I want the finish to come up to the edge of the wood flush like veneer? Do I want it to wrap around over the edge?

    2) What needs to be done do remove masking, or the painting handle? How do you separate the finish from the parts getting removed?

    3) Do I really want just a thin neck for a painting handle, something that fills the pocket and is flush to the top? It seems like the cavity of the neck pocket and the protrusions of many handles I've seen would mess with the flow of spray and make getting a smooth coat more difficult.

    I'm sure more questions will come up as I get going, but that's it for now.

    Mike
     
  2. TwangBilly

    TwangBilly Tele-Afflicted

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    Have you tried doing a search on here?
    The honorable Mr. Ron Kirn, among others, has graciously posted some very useful knowledge on the subject if I remember correctly.
     
  3. barbrainy

    barbrainy RIP

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    Mike, are you planning on doing a nitro finish?
     
  4. ElectricNewbie

    ElectricNewbie TDPRI Member

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    Should have said that. I am planning on using nitro. From what I've read, it seems best to maximize my opportunity to fix my errors. Plus, it fits well with my limited ability to create a dust free space and it sounds cool. Nitro!

    As for searching, there's so much here, I'm sure it's there somewhere, but it wasn't in the threads I found. It said to be careful, but I was hoping for a more specific strategy. I didn't find any discussion about the airflow into and around corners. That probably means it doesn't matter, but I'm still curious. The little bit of spraying I have done taught me getting spray into a large corner like deep in a bookshelf can be a challenge.

    The neck pocket is an interesting thing. I can't think of any time in woodworking I've had to finish one face, but not the face that meets it in an edge that isn't hidden under a shoulder of some sort. A clean edge would be chippy, a flat uniform fully finished pocket can't be achieved with the stick in the way, and something in the middle would drive the pickiest among us crazy. It's not a situation that comes up with acoustics that are finished with necks on (at least the way I do them).

    Mike
     
  5. piece of ash

    piece of ash Friend of Leo's

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    Proceed with the idea of a thin neck... with some mods. Cut down the profile so that there is an 1/8 inch gap around the "seam" where a real neck would meet the body. This means the "back" of the neck as well.

    This gap will allow a little bit of spray to blow through the gap and very lightly coat the concealed areas of the pocket. This will also prevent any body-to-paint-stick bonding that may occur.

    I use a broom stick fitted to small drilled block that mimics the heel of a neck. The broom stick then gets shoved into the horizontal tube of an old keyboard stand to make a rotating holder of sorts.
     
  6. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity

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    y'allz got mail..

    Ron Kirn
     
  7. barbrainy

    barbrainy RIP

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    I'd second what piece of ash says above, something solid but that leaves a little space for all corners/edges of the neck pocket. I just use scrap wood, that I have shaped so it does not touch at any corner, only inside the pocket itself. If you see what I mean..... I also ensure it is a little lower than the surface of the front of the body, so I can sand with it still attached.

    I'd also add to do a dry fit of the neck into the neck pocket before doing any finishing (of either). You actually do not want it to be perfectly snug, you need some space left for the finish AND for a tiny gap after neck and pocket are finished.

    If it is too snug a fit, when you come to final assembly, you will get the nitro around the neck pocket cracking when/after then neck is bolted on. Trust me, I know......from experience....

    A rule of thumb someone else on here gave me is to leave enough space for a piece of paper to fit between the neck and the pocket (before finish)
     
  8. barbrainy

    barbrainy RIP

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    Very light (especially) and very dark colours of nitro can be a right pain for getting dust/hair/bugs/tiny pieces of crap caught in the coats. Well, all nitro can be, but they are wayyyyyyy more visible in light colours. My experiences have taught me (I just spray in a garage, with an HVLP) the following:

    • Vacuum/sweep or blow area (and myself!) with HVLP before
    • Wet the floor a little, then leave for a while for dust to settle
    • If it is something really visible, and it's in the colour coats, I have two choices. If it's a solid colour, just spray over it. Translucent, very gently sand it out after coat has flash dried but not cured, so it is still a bit soft, but not so soft that it is still sticky. Sometimes at this stage, it (whatever piece of crap it is) can just be gently rubbed off with my finger rather than using sandpaper, so I try that first.
    • If it's in the later clear coats, it may well get sanded out during flat sanding and wet sanding/polishing, so will often just leave it and hope for the best.....


    As ever, YMMV
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2013
  9. BartS

    BartS Friend of Leo's

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    Your doing what I did your over thinking things. Read rons book and listen to the advice given here. The thing I can add if you didn't already know is get yourself a good resperator. A harbor frieght one is fine as long as the p rating is high enough I think it should either be p95 or p100 your going to have to look that up.
     
  10. ElectricNewbie

    ElectricNewbie TDPRI Member

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    Thanks for the book, Ron! Looks great. And Bart, thanks for the reminder about a good respirator. I didn't need the reminder in this case, but I'm always glad for a kick in the butt about safety. And of course I'm over thinking things. That's what I do. Thanks everyone for the advice. In the end it will all work out regardless. Now if crazy Colorado winters can just give me enough warm days to get it done. No garage and a basement shop = we'll see how it goes. At least it's black, to optimize my frustration.
     
  11. 1955

    1955 Doctor of Teleocity

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    image-3798498692.jpg

    Sorry, couldn't resist.
     
  12. ElectricNewbie

    ElectricNewbie TDPRI Member

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    The house is already so full of cat hair, it's probably 30% of my diet. Wouldn't be right to have a guitar the cats hadn't "helped" with.
     
  13. Coach56

    Coach56 One of the Boys

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    The fashion world has always known you are not fully dressed till you are wearing a little fur.
     
  14. ElectricNewbie

    ElectricNewbie TDPRI Member

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    Well, the sprayer has arrived, and if you wanted to make a list of things I am not yet awesome at, don't forget using a spray gun. I spent some time spraying vinyl sanding sealer on scrap wood and cardboard boxes this afternoon. It really comes blasting out of there - not like I expected. Words I would not use to describe today's products include:

    "even"
    "drip free"
    "nice"
    "smooth"
    "minimal overspray"

    However, I did make some sapelle a beautiful rich color. It dried nearly instantly and dust free. I certainly see the potential. Now if the weather will cooperate and give me enough days to practice and get one body sprayed.


    Mike
     
  15. Ronkirn

    Ronkirn Doctor of Teleocity

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    Fun's 'bout to begin.... I do trust ya know to learn on something you don't care about.... stripping your # 1 project is a bummer...

    Ron Kirn
     
  16. ElectricNewbie

    ElectricNewbie TDPRI Member

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    Today was cardboard boxes and scrap. Tomorrow, more of the same. It'd be nice if I could get the sealer on tomorrow, but that seems optimistic based on available evidence. This isn't my #1, but it may end up being my #1 stripping project.

    Mike
     
  17. orangedrop

    orangedrop Friend of Leo's

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    A few vids I found for you...

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N0b99SG_Gfc

    Ron is not getting the best atomization here as you can see by the big droplets around the edges of the pattern, but he does painlesly describe how the gun's controls function.

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o9u_SlsFwBs


    It's all becoming clear...

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4dXZOMHsx_k
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2013
  18. ElectricNewbie

    ElectricNewbie TDPRI Member

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    Thanks! Looks like it will help.

    That's weird. There was just the one video. Now there are three. Should be helpful though. Thanks again.

    Mike
     
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