Band / Venue agreement

Discussion in 'Band Wagon' started by joe_cpwe, Oct 25, 2019.

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  1. joe_cpwe

    joe_cpwe Tele-Holic

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    The band I started last December got a few gigs under our belt, then I broke some bones in August & had to cancel a few gigs, now we're going to be replacing the singer who also the PA owner. We have leads on a couple replacement singers, with gear, which is great. All that aside, I've booked some of the gigs, but don't care for it a lot. This recent thread about booking yourself got me thinking about it more.
    https://www.tdpri.com/threads/what-...cing-booking-gigs-for-your-band.983218/page-4
    My thought is to continue land the venues I can but also get an agent to handle outdoor/other events I wouldn't run normally across or have the connection to get.

    My question is, how many of you have some written understanding ahead of time, vs handshake agreement. It seems some bar owners have a very standard way they treat everyone while others are more loose which could lend itself to misunderstandings.

    If you have a written agreement, do you use email, messenger, paper... What's your normal process and what are some anomalies.

    Primary concerns between and venue I can think of that everyone should understand are: arrival/setup time, soundcheck time, length of set(s), pay, and are drinks included :) What else am I missing?

    If we can keep it to recent experience, say the past 10 years, it might be helpful.
     
  2. fendrguitplayr

    fendrguitplayr Poster Extraordinaire

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  3. Rockerfeller

    Rockerfeller Tele-Meister

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    We NEVER, EVER, have a hand shake agreement. It's Always a contract, preferably ours. But I'll use theirs when needed. I've found that having a contact keeps things friendly. The client knows exactly what they are getting and so do we.
     
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  4. schmee

    schmee Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    I seldom do contracts. Some events require them though. Usually city summer events etc. Yes you have some risk without contracts, but realistically, what are you gonna do with a contract? sue a club owner? You'll not only never play there again but spend more collecting $500 than getting it!
    Nothing wrong with contracts though, it sets things up for no misunderstandings that way. Sometimes the hiring person, manager or bartender is no longer employed when you play! I've had the new person ask how much they were supposed to pay us etc! Time, Pay, Comps (food and drink) , how paid (check or cash) etc. Knowing these things firmly does help. With todays messenger or email, it's just easier and at least you have a record.
    The problem is sending and getting them back etc etc. Club people are busy all the time. I hate to piss them off.

    For a while I sent out postcards with the event, date and time on it to the owner. Just a way to avoid a double booking thing happening.
    Twice in 20 years we have arrived to a gig to discover two bands are booked. Both times we were early and set up mostly so the other band went away.
    Also, we usually send posters a couple weeks ahead, so that should key a venue if they are double booked.. "should" anyway!
     
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  5. joe_cpwe

    joe_cpwe Tele-Holic

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    Yeah I don't see anyone ever suing the other party in these cases, but having things in writing sure could make both parties feel better.
    I had a bar owner start writing me a check one night and I said I was hoping to pay the guys,,,,tonight,,,,have you got cash? Luckily we packed it out, she was happy to go get a stack of 20s and rip up the check.
    She had forgotten what we agreed to play for too. Somewhat awkward.
     
  6. Flat6Driver

    Flat6Driver Friend of Leo's

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    I don't have a lot of experience at this but the biggest hassel gig was with my community HOA. I had 30 emails back and forth and then a certificate of insurance. What a pain for $450.

    All the other $350 bar gigs we've done have been coordinated over emails, Facebook messenger or the phone.

    Since I cross promote over Facebook we haven't showed up to a surprise cancellation yet.
     
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  7. Junkyard Dog

    Junkyard Dog Tele-Afflicted

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    Cancellation policy. What happens if the venue cancels? What happens if the band cancels? Does it makes a difference if it’s 2 weeks out or the night of?
     
  8. joe_cpwe

    joe_cpwe Tele-Holic

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    good questions
     
  9. Junkyard Dog

    Junkyard Dog Tele-Afflicted

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    For reference, here's one from a bar gig last year. This was drawn up by the agent, emailed back and forth to venue and artist (me), and signed electronically by both parties...was pretty easy on my end,

    Contract.png
     
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  10. String Tree

    String Tree Doctor of Teleocity

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    Contracts are very difficult to enforce.
    The idea is that if things don't go right, you can go to Court.
    You can't do that with out your own Lawyer.
    When you take that contract you signed to your Lawyer, you will find that you made a HUGE mistake.

    Unless you have Your Lawyer in on the Wording of that Legal Document, you will be left holding the bag!

    Be very careful.
    -ST
     
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  11. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

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    insisting on a venue signing some written agreement can prevent you from playing there.
    fact is they aint gotta sign nothin, and they can get some bunch of kids at a drop of a hat for any fri night
     
  12. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Most places operate above board, and you can take em at their word, or they don't operate long
     
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  13. Mike Simpson

    Mike Simpson Doctor of Teleocity

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    We only use contracts at large festival or municipal events. For bar gigs I prefer to have something in text, messenger or email confirming the gig but sometimes it's just a phone call. If you want to play many bar gigs around here you are not gonna get bar owners to sign contracts. Unless you have played the gig you have provided no service and they don't really owe you anything. If you are cancelled on short notice, well, welcome to the music business. We have slowed down a little but we played 80+ gigs a year for many years. We have had a few double bookings, some rain cancels for outdoor events and a some short notice bookings where another band cancelled due to illness or emergencies. Delivering posters ahead of the gig to bars is a good way to confirm the gig and helps promote the gig.
     
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  14. nvilletele

    nvilletele Friend of Leo's

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    No, sorry, but that's not right. For disputes of less than $10,000 you go to small claims court, where lawyers are not present, just the litigants.
    Sure, you can get a lawyer to review a contract, but for a $500 payout you want to give a good chunk of that to a lawyer?
    Contracts are not necessarily difficult to enforce, though often they can be.

    There are some basic matters that should be covered in a contract for a performance, but you if you have a brain you can provide for most of the important contractual terms without a lawyer.

    If this were a contract for $1,000,000 then get a lawyer for sure. But for one-off bar gigs?

    Signed, a lawyer.
     
  15. 41144

    41144 Tele-Afflicted

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    Over here our Musicians Union is an excellent source of resources and advice, presume there's a similar organisation for you too?
    If not take a look around the MU site here for examples.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2019
  16. mfguitar

    mfguitar Tele-Holic

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    We use several agents as well as book ourselves. At least here you can't be exclusive because the agents do not have many venues locked up. Contracts do keep things friendly make sure to include performance expectations (breaks, start time, set up time and so forth). for normal gigs they really don't protect you all that much, I suppose you could threaten. Private events the contract is useful because the people hiring you are not used to hiring talent and it spells everything out and helps keep track of deposits and final payment. Gig Salad and other sites are becoming more popular for gigs, people that are hiring music for the first time look on the internet. The better your press kit the better results. Good luck.
     
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  17. String Tree

    String Tree Doctor of Teleocity

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    Sure, go to Small Claims with it on your own.
    Even if you do win some kind of judgement, how are you going to collect?
    It isn't as easy as Judge Judy makes it look.
     
  18. alnico357

    alnico357 Tele-Holic

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    We had an agent in the 70s & 80s. Now we never have a contract and have not encountered any problems. Well, one problem, but it worked out for the best.
     
  19. nvilletele

    nvilletele Friend of Leo's

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    It can be difficult to collect, but usually with a small amount of effort it can be done.
    Links mentioned below found on this page: https://www.courts.ca.gov/1179.htm


    Ways to Collect From the Debtor


    tips for collecting your judgment and about special rules for small claims cases. Also, keep in mind the small claims advisor can help you.

    Once you are ready, click on each topic below for more information.

    Get the Debtor to Pay You Voluntarily
    The best possible situation is that the debtor pays you voluntarily so you avoid having to spend time and money trying to collect from the debtor. This section gives you tools and suggestions to help you encourage the debtor to pay you voluntarily.

    Get Information About the Debtor's Assets
    If the debtor will not pay you on his or her own, this section helps you find out what types of assets (property) the debtor has that may be used to pay the judgment.

    Collect From the Debtor's Property
    Once you know where the debtor works, where he or she has bank accounts, whether he or she owns a house or other property, you can get help from the court to collect from these sources. This section gives you information and instructions to garnish the debtor's wages, put a lien on the debtor's bank account or house, and other things you can do to collect the money you are owed.

    More Ways to Collect
    This section helps you find more ways to collect your judgment, like getting money from the debtor's business or having the debtor's professional license or driver's license suspended.
     
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  20. String Tree

    String Tree Doctor of Teleocity

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    Please tell me how the common Musician is going to file a Motion to do that.
    You are dealing with Corporations who have gone to greater lengths than you have to shield their personal Assests from this kind of Liability.

    Better get a Lawyer, Son
    Better get a Real Good One
    Better get yourself a Suit and Tie
    Better get your Hair Cut way-up High
     
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