Bad pickups

hopdybob

Friend of Leo's
Joined
May 28, 2008
Posts
2,277
Location
netherlands
Yes, will try it out! Isn't strange that i get more output when i have my volume pot at 5 i have more output then on 10?
maybe you hooked the pot wrong into the wiring? because now it looks like you made a balance pot with max output on the middle solderingpoint of the pot.
but there are more technical electronic experts here than i am, so wait on their input to ;)
 

Asmith

Friend of Leo's
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Posts
4,239
Location
East Yorkshire, England
Yes, will try it out! Isn't strange that i get more output when i have my volume pot at 5 i have more output then on 10?

I wind my neck pickup again. Cable was damaged. What i don't understand.



If you look at this picture. Left pickup is a rumpelstiltskin pickup 5.7k. The right pickup is mine. Output is 6k. When you look to the thickness of the coil, it is way thicker then mine. The only reason i can think of is that they used thinner wire.
But that doesnt look like it.

Your probably winding with low tension, how squishy is the coil?
 

Wallaby

Friend of Leo's
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Posts
2,885
Location
Here
I don't think your magnets are fully charged.

I would put one or two layers of masking tape on the magnets faces in the vise, and close the gap when charging until they touch on both poles. Slightly loosen it just enough to allow the pickup to be pulled through.

I use a similar setup, but with a 6" iron vise instead of a clamp, and a stack of 3 rectangular neo magnets on both jaws, to charge alnico bar magnets for humbuckers and P90's. I put the bar magnet in, close the vise until it's snug and wait a few seconds. Then I loosen the vise a tiny amount and remove the magnet using the 1/2-inch oak "helper", and lift the bar magnet straight out in one motion.

I can fully charge 2-1/2" A5 bars on both poles with this.
 

Wallaby

Friend of Leo's
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Posts
2,885
Location
Here
Here is my charging setup in case anyone is interested.

There is an A3 bar in it in this photo, and my "helper" is laying loose under the magnet. North is marked with Red on the magnets. I use the thin plastic spacers that the magnets shipped with as spacers, attached with double-sided tape.

upload_2021-12-28_6-29-31.png


When this is not in use I keep it stored with its jaws closed.
 

Blaoskaak

Tele-Meister
Joined
Dec 24, 2020
Posts
136
Age
30
Location
Netherlands
When you say 2k for all 3 pickups, is that 3k for each pickup or is that for all pickups selected. If it's all 3 are selected then that is a normal reading.

Only for 1 pickup, but isn't it normal to lose output when the pickup is still wired in my guitar? When i measure at the end of the guitar cable, the the pickup goed through every

maybe you hooked the pot wrong into the wiring? because now it looks like you made a balance pot with max output on the middle solderingpoint of the pot.
but there are more technical electronic experts here than i am, so wait on their input to ;)

Yeah i was thinking the same, but it is a bit confusing, because i have a left handed guitar. I also have a reversed audio taper pot. I thought that i now could wire it like a normal volume pot, how a normal right handed pot is wired.

I don't think your magnets are fully charged.

I would put one or two layers of masking tape on the magnets faces in the vise, and close the gap when charging until they touch on both poles. Slightly loosen it just enough to allow the pickup to be pulled through.

I use a similar setup, but with a 6" iron vise instead of a clamp, and a stack of 3 rectangular neo magnets on both jaws, to charge alnico bar magnets for humbuckers and P90's. I put the bar magnet in, close the vise until it's snug and wait a few seconds. Then I loosen the vise a tiny amount and remove the magnet using the 1/2-inch oak "helper", and lift the bar magnet straight out in one motion.

I can fully charge 2-1/2" A5 bars on both poles with this.


Maybe not. I'll re-charge them again and see how it turns out.

Nice setup too!
 

Wallaby

Friend of Leo's
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Posts
2,885
Location
Here
Here is a way someone else does it

upload_2021-12-28_7-23-46.png


I think an advantage to this is you avoid stressing the bonds between the pole magnets and the flatwork.

I wish I had this instead...

upload_2021-12-28_7-33-20.png
 

Asmith

Friend of Leo's
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Posts
4,239
Location
East Yorkshire, England
The coil is nog squishy at all. A few times before a had too much tension. The pickups where warping. Now a little bit less tension.

Could just be you're winding pattern (more scattered) either way I wouldn't be too concerned.

Only for 1 pickup, but isn't it normal to lose output when the pickup is still wired in my guitar? When i measure at the end of the guitar cable, the the pickup goed through every

Ok this is unusual, it is normal to measure a lower resistance when the pickup is in the guitar because it is wired in parallel with a volume pot (when the volume is maxed). It's only a small drop if the pickup measures 6k ohms out of the guitar then in the guitar with a standard wiring layout it should only drop by 0.1 to 0.2k ohms so the measurement should be in the same ballpark. If the pickup still measures at 6k out of the guitar then I would be confident there is an issue with something else.

Also it's best not to refer to the pickups resistance as output, there is a correlation but it's a bit like measuring someone's height using their shoe size because there are so many other factors that have a much larger impact. The caveat being it is useful for comparing pickups that are similar in other respects such as pickup type (strat, Tele, etc), magnet type, copper wire thickness.

You will measure a higher resistance across the jack with the volume turned halfway down compared to fully up and it's because at that point you're really measuring the parallel resistances on the volume potentiometer and the resistance of the pickup(s) is negligible.

Without a detailed explanation aided by a diagram its hard to explain why and I'm currently on a train so just take me at my word. Anyway, I would expect to be able to measure a resistance of at least 50k ohm for some position on the volume knobs sweep. The tone knob should have no effect because the capacitor in series has no DC resistance.
 

Blaoskaak

Tele-Meister
Joined
Dec 24, 2020
Posts
136
Age
30
Location
Netherlands
Here is a way someone else does it

View attachment 934099

I think an advantage to this is you avoid stressing the bonds between the pole magnets and the flatwork.

I wish I had this instead...

View attachment 934102

Ah yes, that is a way too. it looks like everything works.

That is a nice machine. probably very expensive.

Could just be you're winding pattern (more scattered) either way I wouldn't be too concerned.



Ok this is unusual, it is normal to measure a lower resistance when the pickup is in the guitar because it is wired in parallel with a volume pot (when the volume is maxed). It's only a small drop if the pickup measures 6k ohms out of the guitar then in the guitar with a standard wiring layout it should only drop by 0.1 to 0.2k ohms so the measurement should be in the same ballpark. If the pickup still measures at 6k out of the guitar then I would be confident there is an issue with something else.

Also it's best not to refer to the pickups resistance as output, there is a correlation but it's a bit like measuring someone's height using their shoe size because there are so many other factors that have a much larger impact. The caveat being it is useful for comparing pickups that are similar in other respects such as pickup type (strat, Tele, etc), magnet type, copper wire thickness.

You will measure a higher resistance across the jack with the volume turned halfway down compared to fully up and it's because at that point you're really measuring the parallel resistances on the volume potentiometer and the resistance of the pickup(s) is negligible.

Without a detailed explanation aided by a diagram its hard to explain why and I'm currently on a train so just take me at my word. Anyway, I would expect to be able to measure a resistance of at least 50k ohm for some position on the volume knobs sweep. The tone knob should have no effect because the capacitor in series has no DC resistance.

Yes i think you're right. i scatter it alot.


When i measure my pickup which is still wired in the guitar. on both leads (ground and hot) then i get normal readings.

When i measure on the guitar cable i put my + plug from multimeter to the tip of the guitar cable (which is plugged in my guitar) and my - to the longer part under the tip of the guitar cable. (don't know the name.) when volume is 10 i get 2.6k. when i turn volume to 5 i get 4,38k. when volume off i get 0k. this is weird too.

When i blend the pots the output is a bit higher.



This diagram i used. Switch bridge and neck cable beacuse i have a left handed guitar. i also have a reversed audio pot. i wired that pot in the same way as the diagram, but i think lug 1 and 2 should be switched, but i'm not sure. the volume on guitar is on when i turn the volume pot upward.
 

Blaoskaak

Tele-Meister
Joined
Dec 24, 2020
Posts
136
Age
30
Location
Netherlands
I switched the volume pot to a new one and switched lug 1 and 3. It is alot better now! Get alot less background noise and it looks like a blanket has been removed from the cab. Positon 4 and 5 sounds a bit thin now. More like out of phase. Maybe it is because of my treble booster. Don't know.

Was it right to switch rhe lugs with a reverse audio pot?

But i am happy at the results so far.

Edit: forgot to say i recharged the pickups too. I just sticked the magnets on the coil and wait for 30 seconden and then moved on to the other coils.
 

Asmith

Friend of Leo's
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Posts
4,239
Location
East Yorkshire, England
I switched the volume pot to a new one and switched lug 1 and 3. It is alot better now! Get alot less background noise and it looks like a blanket has been removed from the cab. Positon 4 and 5 sounds a bit thin now. More like out of phase. Maybe it is because of my treble booster. Don't know.

Was it right to switch rhe lugs with a reverse audio pot?

But i am happy at the results so far.

Edit: forgot to say i recharged the pickups too. I just sticked the magnets on the coil and wait for 30 seconden and then moved on to the other coils.

Sounds like progress, I would say reversing lug 1 and 3 will correct the taper but the potentiometer will work backwards. Full volume is now off and vice versa.

If position 4 and 5 are both weak I would investigate the pickup used on position 5 (is that bridge or neck? I always forget the naming convention). Either way the pickup in position 5 is also used in 4, so if there is an issue with that pickup it will be heard in both.
 

Blaoskaak

Tele-Meister
Joined
Dec 24, 2020
Posts
136
Age
30
Location
Netherlands
Sounds like progress, I would say reversing lug 1 and 3 will correct the taper but the potentiometer will work backwards. Full volume is now off and vice versa.

If position 4 and 5 are both weak I would investigate the pickup used on position 5 (is that bridge or neck? I always forget the naming convention). Either way the pickup in position 5 is also used in 4, so if there is an issue with that pickup it will be heard in both.

Yeah, that is the weird thing. Volume works exactly the same as before after i wired lug 1 and 3 in the other place.

Yesterday i wind a new neck pickup, my guess would be that i accidently wound it the wrong direction, but ahouldn't be that pickup be out of phase then?
 

Asmith

Friend of Leo's
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Posts
4,239
Location
East Yorkshire, England
Yeah, that is the weird thing. Volume works exactly the same as before after i wired lug 1 and 3 in the other place.

Yesterday i wind a new neck pickup, my guess would be that i accidently wound it the wrong direction, but ahouldn't be that pickup be out of phase then?

The winding surgeon won't make a difference when in position 5 and position 4 will sound distinctively it of phase
 

Blaoskaak

Tele-Meister
Joined
Dec 24, 2020
Posts
136
Age
30
Location
Netherlands
I still have problems with out of phase.

When i do the magnetic test with a multimeter to test the phase.

Referring to this video:



My neck pickup magnetic field goes up.
Middle and bridge goes up. So they are out of phase. My pickups are north/south/north

I have switch every lead cable in every pickup and i am lost.

Mabye have a idea how to get this right?
 

edvard

Friend of Leo's
Joined
May 15, 2016
Posts
2,390
Location
Bremerton, WA
I still have problems with out of phase.

When i do the magnetic test with a multimeter to test the phase.

Referring to this video:



My neck pickup magnetic field goes up.
Middle and bridge goes up. So they are out of phase. My pickups are north/south/north

I have switch every lead cable in every pickup and i am lost.

Mabye have a idea how to get this right?


Actually, that's what you want. As long as all the pickups push a signal in the same direction, they are all in phase, no matter which way the magnets are facing. If you want a humbucking effect, then the middle one should be magnetically opposite of the bridge and neck pickup, but still pushing signal the same direction as the others. If any of the pickups, no matter their magnetic polarity, swung your multimeter the opposite way of the others on a 'ruler test' , it would be out of phase. All by itself, you wouldn't notice. Combined with others, you'd get the out-of-phase effect.
 

hopdybob

Friend of Leo's
Joined
May 28, 2008
Posts
2,277
Location
netherlands
@Blaoskaak
keep hanging in there.
don't throw the towel in the ring
we all had our share in getting the info make sense to us and learn from this kind of situations.
but my advise: KISS ( In Dutch : houd het simpel)
no blender pot but first standard wiring.
when this works correct, than you can tweak.
 

Danjabellza

Friend of Leo's
Joined
Sep 22, 2014
Posts
2,870
Location
Tacoma, Wa
I had the same thing happen once. I had a set of Klein pickups, I forget what set. They came in a strat I got in trade. Sounded absolutely amazing clean, but I could not get them to break up. At the time I had a JCM 2000, and even on the super lead or whatever the hell it was called high gain channel, those pickups stayed clean. It was the craziest thing.
 

drmordo

Friend of Leo's
Joined
Jun 27, 2019
Posts
2,353
Age
48
Location
Tampa, FL
There is a good reason why all Fender single coil players have a boost/overdrive pedal.

Especially all the players who use weak wound PUs. At one point I bought a set of 'vintage' wound PUs from a fairly well known maker, and I couldn't get my amp to drive the way I wanted. It was a new amp so I initially thought it was the problem, but it sounded killer with my other guitars. I finally bought some hotter PUs and my problem was solved.

I learned that I prefer hotter wound single coils so the PUs drive the amp a bit. YMMV!!!
 

Blaoskaak

Tele-Meister
Joined
Dec 24, 2020
Posts
136
Age
30
Location
Netherlands
Actually, that's what you want. As long as all the pickups push a signal in the same direction, they are all in phase, no matter which way the magnets are facing. If you want a humbucking effect, then the middle one should be magnetically opposite of the bridge and neck pickup, but still pushing signal the same direction as the others. If any of the pickups, no matter their magnetic polarity, swung your multimeter the opposite way of the others on a 'ruler test' , it would be out of phase. All by itself, you wouldn't notice. Combined with others, you'd get the out-of-phase effect.

Yes you're right. But the problem is that they are not all in the right direction. I didn't say that i realise. Neck goed up. Middle and bridge goes down.

Normal wiring

Position 1 neck in phase
Position 2 in phase
Position 3 middle out of phase
Position 4 out of phase
Position 5 bridge out of phase

When using blender pot

Position 1 neck out of phase and microphonic
Position 2 out of phase
Position 3 middle in phase
Position 4 out of phase i think
Position 5 bridge in phase

This is what i get.

The output is good. When i measure it from the cable, i still have 5,7k readings from the pickups, so that is good.

Me blender knob is blends the wrong signals. For examle. The good sound on switch 4 is when i blend the pickups. The out of phase 4 is when the blender pot is off. They mixed togehether.

Problem strated when i use 1 out of phase pickup. The pickups are north/south/north.

@Blaoskaak
keep hanging in there.
don't throw the towel in the ring
we all had our share in getting the info make sense to us and learn from this kind of situations.
but my advise: KISS ( In Dutch : houd het simpel)
no blender pot but first standard wiring.
when this works correct, than you can tweak.

Yes, i can go back to the beginning, but it worked before, untill i put a pickup in that i accidently wired the wrong way. I wind it counter clockwise. It should be wind clockwise. Now i have 1 out of phase pickup. I switched leads, but didn't worked.

Nu zie ik door de bomen het bos niet meer. I extended every lead cable from every pickup i think 2 times. Lol. I am just switching leads, but it don't work.

I had the same thing happen once. I had a set of Klein pickups, I forget what set. They came in a strat I got in trade. Sounded absolutely amazing clean, but I could not get them to break up. At the time I had a JCM 2000, and even on the super lead or whatever the hell it was called high gain channel, those pickups stayed clean. It was the craziest thing.

Yeah, that is annoying. It was driving me nuts. The problem was my volume pot i think. Since i replaced it, i have twice as much output when i measure the guitar cable.


Especially all the players who use weak wound PUs. At one point I bought a set of 'vintage' wound PUs from a fairly well known maker, and I couldn't get my amp to drive the way I wanted. It was a new amp so I initially thought it was the problem, but it sounded killer with my other guitars. I finally bought some hotter PUs and my problem was solved.

I learned that I prefer hotter wound single coils so the PUs drive the amp a bit. YMMV!!!


Which pickups do you use now? I use vintage pickups too everytime. This is bevause in the old days they used that kind of pickups. But maybe those vintage pickups only sound good with alot of overdrive through 100w amps.
 
Last edited:




Top