Bad luthier / shoddy work

[P Thought]

What would you do ?

1) I'd take my least precious guitar for my first "setup" from a "luthier" I don't know

2) In your situation I'd (have) paid the price asked, NOT let the same person make the adjustments, then I'd order 50 bone nut blanks off the internet, so I'd have 49 backups if I screwed up the first one

3) When I have the new nut as close as I can get it to the way I want it, I'd start again looking for a competent and reliable tech (I myself am not competent or reliable)

 

[Wrighty]

tha

Thanks so much for the kind words and encouragement. Heck, now in hindsight I should have just bought the files and went for it. My set up was so much better than this hack which means I could have probably also done the slots better too. Time to go next level

Not needed a nut job () to date but, when I do, I’ve got a set of files. When the time comes I’ll buy a couple or three cheap plastic nuts to practice on and a ‘real’ one. Once I’m happy with my work I’ll go for it.

 

[Tarkus60]

ISeems like I should buy some tools , a squier, and start gettin to work ! Thanks for the encouragement!

Music nomad for tools . They work just fine for normal use.
Nut's are replaceable if you go to far.

 

[Thebluesman]

trust your gut, if he did a crap job he's not a 'legend' then is he, something is off, he wasn't just having a bad day, maybe he doesn't know what he's doing, I'm glad you got your money back.

Probably a ''Legend'' for poor work ethic!!!

 

[Toto'sDad]

My last bad experience was about 5 years ago. I took a Strat to have pickups swapped and have some fret issues resolved (choke outs at the 5th and 9th fret.)

He swapped the pickups, but he didn't resolve the fret issues. He just raised the action. He kept a Stew Mac shim I had installed and he put a super rough notch in the pickguard so he could access the truss rod at the heel. It looked like someone chewed the guard with their granny's dentures. It was that bad.

I was livid.

I haven't been to a tech since then. I just started buying the tools to do my own work. So far so good.

And I fixed the fret issues on the Strat with some spot leveling and re-crowning. And it was the very first time I attempted to do either task.

I can honestly say that every time I've taken a guitar to a tech, even one's with supposed good reps, I've been disappointed with the results. Now, if I can't fix it myself I either learn to live with the guitar as it is, or sell or trade it. Common sense, a few tools, and not getting in a hurry will go a long way toward solving most guitar issues.

 

[badinfinities]

I can honestly say that every time I've taken a guitar to a tech, even one's with supposed good reps, I've been disappointed with the results. Now, if I can't fix it myself I either learn to live with the guitar as it is, or sell or trade it. Common sense, a few tools, and not getting in a hurry will go a long way toward solving most guitar issues.

Yup, I've rarely been satisfied with the results. I often wonder if it's communication issues - either me not being clear enough, or the tech not taking notes while I'm talking. Sometimes it's definitely a lack of skill on tech's end. Either way, it's frustrating and a waste of money.

 

[Tarkus60]

My buddy and I have taken the challenge to do almost anything. I am the electrics guy and he has perfected slotting a nut.
We did my D18 a couple of weeks ago.
Holy frets it is so smooth!!!!!
He picked up a Taylor 314. When I played it....I was like take a bit out the nut. Me and my big mouth.
Nope it was perfect and we went too far.
Ordered a new nut and it is perfect once again.

 

[Tarkus60]

I acquired a Martin SC13E. The piezo pickup was acting strange.
I took the guitar to a authorized Martin Tech is Louisville.
He said oh that is too much to fix?????? WTF??????
I bought a LR Baggs M80 and bam we are jamming.

 

[Toto'sDad]

Yup, I've rarely been satisfied with the results. I often wonder if it's communication issues - either me not being clear enough, or the tech not taking notes while I'm talking. Sometimes it's definitely a lack of skill on tech's end. Either way, it's frustrating and a waste of money.

I finally learned how to set up an acoustic with medium strings so that when fretting a cowboy G chord the big E string doesn't go sharp at the third fret. I have NEVER had a pro setup done that accomplished this simple thing.

 

[Toto'sDad]

My buddy and I have taken the challenge to do almost anything. I am the electrics guy and he has perfected slotting a nut.
We did my D18 a couple of weeks ago.
Holy frets it is so smooth!!!!!
He picked up a Taylor 314. When I played it....I was like take a bit out the nut. Me and my big mouth.
Nope it was perfect and we went too far.
Ordered a new nut and it is perfect once again.

On an acoustic guitar the nut is just about as an important thing to get right is there is on one.

 

[Toto'sDad]

I did have a pro tech do me a huge favor one time, but it had nothing to do with the setup. So, I can't say it's all been bad.

 

[Freeman Keller]

I'm really surprised in the last dozen or so posts how many people are dissatisfied with their setup techs, its not that difficult to do and to do a good job. I set up guitars for many local players, one music store and a couple of instructors send their students to me. I also do pro bono repairs on Mariachi instruments belonging to the high school music program.

I'm not a professional, most of the time I don't get paid for what I do. Oh, I'll accept a bottle of wine or gift card for dinner or tickets to a gig or some merch, but its something I seem to be able to do and I enjoy doing it.

I have a very simple process regardless of what kind of instrument I'm working on or who I'm doing the work for. I start by asking what the owner thinks is wrong, what doesn't she like about it. I usually asker her to play for me, I want to watch attack, where she plays on the fretboard, how she frets and plucks. If she has some sort of feeling about what specs she wants I note that.

I do almost all of my setup work to numbers. I respect the people who can squint and look down a guitar's neck and know exactly what to do, I'm not that good. When the pimply faced kid a GC says "the action's a little high, here, let me get a truss rod wrench and lower it" I cringe.

I start by making sure the guitar is structurally sound, is hydrated and the geometry is correct. If one of those is wrong it gets fixed first. I look at the frets with the owner and decide if we can work with them - sometimes dressing is all they need, sometimes replacement. Perfect frets are the key to a perfect playing guitar.

Before I do ANYTHING on the guitar I measure EVERYTHING and write it down (actually I have a spread sheet that I fill out for each guitar, I write the "as found" numbers in all the little boxed). I measure the strings that are on it, note the type and write that down. If the owner has specific instructions ("set up to Gibson factory specs") I write that down and make sure I understand EXACTLY what that means (there are lots of versions of those specs).

The we agree on exactly what I will do, a firm quote, or "price not to exceed" or how many tickets to the show or what kind of wine I like. And the time when the guitar will be done (I shoot for two weeks).

I do the work, fill out the "as finished" part of the spread sheet - copy for the owner, one for me. Call the owner and agree on pickup time. When she arrives we go over the guitar on the bench, I give back all the old parts and I ask her to play it (I've got a couple of small amps in my shop. I tell her that if there is anything that develops to bring it back immediately, I'd like to say I warrant my work for X days but anytime it good.

I don't think I've ever had someone complain about my work the way I'm hearing above, but I want to hear about it if there is a problem. I know stuff happens, we are human after all, but I will do everything in my power to fix it if it does. Most of my customer/clients whatever you want to call them, are my friends. Most bring their guitars back to me or new guitars when they get one (I also help people evaluate a guitar they are thinking of buying). I'm also smart enough to know when I'm over my head or shouldn't do something. I am perfectly capable of doing resets on Martin guitars but I think an Authorized Tech should do it for the paper trail when the owner wants to sell.

I'll also work on guitars no one else will. A friend brough a beat up old Harmony with a hole in its side and action you could walk under, said it was his moms when she was young and he wanted to play it for her before she passed. I plugged in the glue pot.

Anyway I'm sorry for the stream of conscience rant, I won't make excuse for people who do shoddy work and hope the market weeds them out. But there are a lot of good techs out there trying to keep all these little music boxes working to the whims of some pretty opinionated owners. I wouldn't want it any other ways.
ps A long time ago I wrote a little thread on how I approach doing a setup, it hasn't changed and has helped a few folks get started doing their own setups

Basic Setup

There are a couple of threads running right now where questions have been asked about leveling frets, making nuts and other setup related topics. I’ve commented a bit and I’ve received a few private messages asking about aspects that we’ve been discussion. I thought maybe it was time to...

www.tdpri.com

 

[netgear69]

The damage behind the nut can easily happen when nut slotting. I have done it a few times on my own guitars never bothered me.
It is avoidable with a bit of masking tape, which would be the respectable thing to do with someone's possessions.

The damage to the neck again sh’t happens when using tools in an environment if you are not focused 100% but at least be honest about it or fix it.

As for the fella's attitude, getting angry at someone because of his own mistakes is narcissistic. You can't reason with people like this.
He is right. You are wrong. Who knows he might learn that respect goes both ways. If he doesn't, his business won't last long

 

[Boreas]

My first bad experience was with a 77 Martin HD-28 I took in to have the frets replaced. All of the frets had a 2-3 thousandths gap under them. The board had not been slotted deep enough from the factory. It was out of warranty (I bought it used), but it annoyed me enough to pay for a refret. Took it to a renowned violin luthier in CNY. When I got the guitar home again (about $150 poorer back in 1980 dollars), I realized the frets had been replaced, BUT THE GAPS REMAINED! When I took it back, he said he could do it again - cutting the slots deeper, but I would have to pay again. He had no explanation for why he didn't do it properly the first time. Perhaps I didn't make it clear that I brought in a nearly-new guitar with nearly-new frets for a fret job! I said no thanks and am still bad-mouthing him to this day! That guitar is long-gone.

The other episode was on my 1954 00-18 I took in for a neck reset. I also asked the luthier in Burlington, VT to switch out the bridge pins for ebony pins. When I went to pick up the guitar, the reset was done very nicely, but he had swapped the entire BRIDGE for and drop-in saddle ebony bridge! He didn't read his own notes correctly! He ended up not charging me for the bridge swap, and found the through-saddle rosewood bridge he had removed from my guitar. Years later, I had the original rosewood bridge re-installed. Moral - always have the luthier read back the work order and get a copy!

 

[badinfinities]

I'm really surprised in the last dozen or so posts how many people are dissatisfied with their setup techs, its not that difficult to do and to do a good job.

Basic Setup

There are a couple of threads running right now where questions have been asked about leveling frets, making nuts and other setup related topics. I’ve commented a bit and I’ve received a few private messages asking about aspects that we’ve been discussion. I thought maybe it was time to...

www.tdpri.com

Your posts on here show you care and that you are methodical in your work. You play down your skills and experience, but trust me, they are leagues above most people that call themselves guitar techs.

The poor techs I've come across in the past all worked in music stores. I'm guessing that scenario comes with a lot of problems. Tending to the instruments in the store, dealing with a wide variety of people all day long, constant interruptions - I bet it's a grind. You need to be a people person and be very organized. You need to manage that 2 to 4 week turnaround and deal with the "same day" crowd.

I know some of these techs were not particularly gifted with social interaction, and often, they were musicians that hit a wall and opted out of being on the road. Not an excuse for poor service, but perhaps an indication of their investment in the trade. These guys seem to balk at larger issues and don't pay attention to the micro-issues. They make bizarre diagnoses that more skilled techs/luthiers would never make. I guess you could say they often come up against the limits of their knowledge but aren't willing to admit it.

On the other hand, the great interactions I've had were with guys who had luthier training. They build guitars and they repair them. They're passionate about their work and have the skills and craftsmanship to solve problems.

 

[Caffiend]

Took my telecaster for a setup and have the nut slots lowered. I left a note w desired setup specs (standard fender specs) and my preferred strings. After 4 weeks the guitar came back playing worse than when I brought it in. I was quite shocked to see a large doink in the neck from mishandling. My requested strings were not even put on and still in the case. The only thing actually done to the instrument was that all the strings were lowered ridiculously (This was their $100 “gold setup”). I met the the “luthier” and he said he was “going to put this to rest.” Instead of listening to me about how I wanted the guitar to play, he berated me on how his setup was perfect. I told him again the specs I desired, my preference, and what a liked- with no acknowledgment. Only after long endless bantering and back and forth did he actually lower the nut slots as requested (and paid for !) The work was shoddy. I asked him to lower just a smidge and he went crazy. Slots were cut so poorly and it doesn’t even stay in tune hardly. He used abrasive chord instead of proper nut files and damaged the lacquer behind the nut in 2 spots. I also asked him to put the strings on I provided and he became super indignant and reluctantly did my request. He was so rough that he broke one while putting in on. He told me that he hated fender strings and that’s why he didn’t put them on. He also made it a point to mention the various things he that hated on my guitar. After reluctantly adjusting the guitar he had me play the it and asked how it felt. It was still not to my liking - He refused to raise the action as he “had already done so once and didn’t want to raise it anymore.” My interaction was so incredibly uncomfortable that it made me feel sick. This was my prized instrument (51 AVRI ii) that took a lifetime to acquire - he treated it like trash! It was incredibly intimidating to see someone so angry rough with my 2K+ instrument. I felt bullied and belittled. It is absolutely one most uncomfortable situations I've ever been in. The owner (after much bantering from him) agreed to give me a refund (which is more than deserved) but would not acknowledge his workers extremely unprofessional behavior. My guitar played and was in better condition before I brought it in. Now I need a new nut plus a competent luthier to fix the dent in the neck and the lacquer chips behind the nut. I estimate trusting my instrument to this place will set me back $250. I couldn’t have dreamed my experience would be this bad. I do my own setups but have never done nut work, so I took it to the most (so called) reputable outfit in town. I left a poor review and no response. What would you do ?

Sorry to hear this. This in a nutshell though, is why it's worth people learning to work on their own stuff. And, at risk of beating a very tired horse, why we need to stop job inflation. Guitar technicians are not necessarily luthiers and each has a very different default status before you begin to consider where in their specific profession they are. This dude shouldn't even be working by the sounds of things.

 

[Guerilla Electro]

I think we should all start naming and shaming the culprits , I noticed people here never name the offending shops , techs or luthiers , maybe that's the problem !
You should try review bomb : use your friends and family phone /internet account to drop several harsh reviews on several different sites like Yelp , TrustPilot , Facebook ... if you become a big enough nuisance they will be ready to settle with you on some kind of refund or pay for repairs ...
In the OP 's case the fact they did offer a full refund proves they know they messed up , but it limits your possiilities of reparations for the damage to the back of the neck , the scratches behind the nut can hardly be qualified likely to hurt the re-sell value , but damage to the back of the neck can and should be adressed .

here's my horror story : the first time I bring an instrument to somebody in 30 + years ...

I brought my newly purchased used jazz archtop to the shop where I just bought it : there was a buzzing I couldn't figure the origin of , I tried everything , taking pickguard off ... no matter how high I raised the action there was fret buzz , so I bring them back and the owner says let's have the luthier they work with look at it , I figured it was free so I agree . Luthier is a very old guy in his 80's , he had enjoyed a quasi monopoly in my 200 000 habitants town for decades .
First bad surprise they tell me I have to pay full price .

I provided new strings Thomastiks flats 10 's because I didn't like the 12 's or 13's the guitar came with : I paid 90€ (100$ ) for a full luthier set-up , he brings the guitar back 2 days later with the same buzz I asked him to get rid off , so I give it back to him , he brings it back the following day , no buzz but the action seems a bit high for my liking , and I noticed he changed the rosewood bridge location again , this time far more angled towards the neck . He explains me that because of the lighter string gauge he had to raise the action because the lighter strings have more excursion , which is true .

I bring it home and tried checking the intonation : it 's completely off , then I realize it's not tuning stable at all ! He didn't even stretch the strings !!! I had to re-tune the guitar every 5 minutes , after 2 weeks of re-tuning and stretching lightly the strings , I get them stable enough to check the intonation : the high E was a D sharp at the 12th fret so it was a a whole half step flat on the High E and a half step sharp at the low E : he had flipped the compensated rosewood bridge !

So I paid 100$ for the guy to just slap the strings on and then turn the bridge thumbwheels a few turns , but he put the strings so poorly the A and D strings are touching each other near the tuners and the G and B strings are also touching each other , he didn't put enough wraps to have a proper stagger so it causes all kinds of tuning issues !

then I understood why the guy was so reluctant to give me his phone number , and why the shop did not give me the "luthier " 's name ( I figured it was for tax-evasion purposes : being semi retired he wanted to work off the books or something )
when I finally figured his name I googled it and found countless horror stories , that's why he wouldn't give me the guy's name and phone number , so I couldn't google it beforehand !!

 

[Bad Son 99]

I sent an acoustic guitar to a tech to fix some buzzing caused by a lifting fret. After he had spent some time on the guitar, he called me and said there was nothing wrong with my guitar and that there was no buzzing. Confused and skeptical, I went to collect the instrument. The tech demonstrated by playing the guitar. I then understood what was going on. The way he was plucking the strings - every note was buzzing. It would be impossible to detect buzzing apart from the most severe fret slap.

Another tech, upon inspecting a vintage spec'ed MIJ Telecaster. He looked confused. I asked what's wrong? And he said, where's the truss rod? I told him it's a heel adjust truss rod. He ran into a back room, I assume, to check out some youtube videos. I let him continue to fiddle and "set up" my guitar because he was a young guy and I thought I should give him a chance. Paid him and left. The instrument was played worse than before.

Yet another tech, who praises himself highly and charges top dollar. And I mean top dollar. The price for a partial level and a new nut was about a set of Stew Mac leveling tools and nut files. This would be my go-to guy if he wasn't so arrogant and actually produced top notch work.

I'd much rather spend time playing guitar than fixing and tweaking them. As much as I want to be, I'm not handy with tools. But all those lousy experiences inspired me to get the tools and learn how to do it myself.

 

[toanhunter]

I've had good and bad guitar techs, all the good ones I knew are all dead though sadly, I've no doubt there ARE good ones out there today, but we tend to remember the bad ones, I will gladly do tech work but only if you pay me up front decent money, but I can't afford to work for free, money talks, I live in a capitalist system, and I need to be paid, my knowledge and time are valuable and worth paying for.

 

[Bill]

I had the same thing happen with my brand new Les Paul in the 70s. Brought it in to the guitar store I bought it from for the 3-month tune up. It came back with a big dent in the neck and scratches all over the front like someone took coarse steel wool to it. The luthier denied causing the scratches and he admitted the neck dent was caused because he always held the neck in a steel-jawed vise when he restrung guitars!

Turned out everyone in the county knew about him but me.

I couldn’t look at the guitar after that. I sold it.

I was 17 and haven’t owned a Les Paul since.