1. Win a Broadcaster or one of 3 Teles! The annual Supporting Member Giveaway is on. To enter Click Here. To see all the prizes and full details Click Here. To view the thread about the giveaway Click Here.

AVRI tone changes w/modern wiring?

Discussion in 'Telecaster Discussion Forum' started by Chino, May 31, 2019.

  1. Chino

    Chino Tele-Meister

    Age:
    65
    Posts:
    283
    Joined:
    May 2, 2019
    Location:
    Seattle
    So I recently got a Tele that was advertised as AV (the mid 2012, updated ones) and I couldn’t figure out why the neck position sounded so weird! Joined this forum and thanks to you great guys I found out it’s actually an AVRI (see my AVataR), with the vintage wiring. Had it changed to the modern wiring and it seems like that beautiful, throaty “cry” is not as pronounced as before. Then I recalled reading some comments somewhere about the vintage wiring tone being better (other than the Dead Zone). It sounds like a more modern Tele now, I’d say. I thought “modern wiring” referred to the wiring, not that the tone itself would sound more modern. Am I imagining this or is it true? If true, I’m kind of disappointed, although I do like having the traditional middle position sound! Thanks. :)
     
    gridlock likes this.
  2. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    4,709
    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2011
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    It could just be that you are not used to what the switch does in modern wiring.

    What is now your #3 position was formerly your #2 position. What you have in position #2 now is both pickups on, in parallel. This is an airy, notched sound with lower output than the other two positions. If you are putting the switch in the middle, and expecting the tone you got from the middle before, you will be disappointed with something weaker sounding. That former middle position tone is now in position #3.

    Additionally, you now have a tone control that affects your bridge pickup. I'm not sure if tone knob in the old AVRI '52 wiring worked on both pickups, or just on the neck pickup. But if the old wiring had no tone control for the bridge pickup, then having the tone knob control the bridge pickup now will cause a slight amount of treble loss (maybe audible and maybe not).
     
    Chino likes this.
  3. Chino

    Chino Tele-Meister

    Age:
    65
    Posts:
    283
    Joined:
    May 2, 2019
    Location:
    Seattle
    I had a Tele way back in the 70s so I’m familiar with the pickup positions and it seems like it sounds more like that Tele now. Maybe it was the settings on the amp or something. Gee, I didn’t notice a new tone knob! Lol. I will check tomorrow when I play it. Thanks!
     
  4. Lotan

    Lotan TDPRI Member

    Age:
    67
    Posts:
    24
    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2017
    Location:
    Essex
    I'd think about fitting a 4 way switch' and add a treble bleed curcuit to your volume pot, then you'd have bridge and neck giving strong tones, and a great middle position, then flick it to the 4th slot, and your neck/bridge become like a humbucker! Great for switching to lead tones, or chugging out rock chords!
     
    Chino likes this.
  5. Chino

    Chino Tele-Meister

    Age:
    65
    Posts:
    283
    Joined:
    May 2, 2019
    Location:
    Seattle
    Wow that sounds really cool but I might want to keep the guitar all original, ya know? I’ll consider that. Thanks!
     
  6. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    9,129
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Location:
    Godzone
    There's a gazillion 52RIs and the suggested mod is easily reversed and will have no effect on it's resale. A four way lets you 'Keef it up'.

    Consider also a 'no load' tone control. This has a detent at '10' which lifts the wiper of the tone pot taking the cap and pot out of the circuit and unloading the pickup output.

    This gives a warmer, hotter signal to any combination of pickups, higher and lower.

    May get you back to where you were.
     
    Chino likes this.
  7. Chino

    Chino Tele-Meister

    Age:
    65
    Posts:
    283
    Joined:
    May 2, 2019
    Location:
    Seattle
    So you’re saying do the loaded tone control AND the 4 way mod? Warmer and hotter are always better. :)
     
  8. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    9,129
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Location:
    Godzone
    More options, costs pennies and both do nothing if not engaged.

    I have a fiveway on my 69 TL - the 2nd position gives a hot series in phase humbucker crunch which is what the four-way gives, the 4th posi is a series out of phase like a Strat on 'roids, pretty funky if rarely usable.

    1-3-5 is neck, parallel in phase and bridge like a stock Tele.
     
    Chino likes this.
  9. Chino

    Chino Tele-Meister

    Age:
    65
    Posts:
    283
    Joined:
    May 2, 2019
    Location:
    Seattle
    I have a Tom Anderson Hollow T Classic with a middle pickup. Not crazy about the Anderson bridge Tele sound so I use it mostly as a Strat. Sounds really vintage. I also have an EJ Strat and a Levinson Blade (hand made in Switzerland) Strat so I’m good in the Strat department lol.
     
  10. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    9,129
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Location:
    Godzone
    If I was doing it again I'd use 4-way. The series humbucker setting is a great addition and adds a lot to it's versatility.
     
    Chino likes this.
  11. Chino

    Chino Tele-Meister

    Age:
    65
    Posts:
    283
    Joined:
    May 2, 2019
    Location:
    Seattle
    Yeah I bet! Does it sound more like a neck bucker or a bridge bucker?
     
  12. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    9,129
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Location:
    Godzone
    Reminds me of a SG bridge.
     
    Chino likes this.
  13. Chino

    Chino Tele-Meister

    Age:
    65
    Posts:
    283
    Joined:
    May 2, 2019
    Location:
    Seattle
    Cool, great for rockin solos. So how do you get this 4 way mod, is there a kit?
     
  14. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    9,129
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Location:
    Godzone
    Chino likes this.
  15. viking

    viking Friend of Leo's

    Age:
    55
    Posts:
    4,341
    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2007
    Location:
    Denmark
    You will need to solder in a new switch
    Many places will offer a diagram , Seymour Duncan etc

    The slot for the switch in the control plate is sometimes not long enough , the throw of the the 4 way is slighty longer

    You also have to split the ground wire from the neck pu , so you will have one from the coil , and one from the cover.

    Stock ground wire grounds both coil and cover
     
    Chino likes this.
  16. Chino

    Chino Tele-Meister

    Age:
    65
    Posts:
    283
    Joined:
    May 2, 2019
    Location:
    Seattle
  17. Dacious

    Dacious Poster Extraordinaire

    Posts:
    9,129
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2003
    Location:
    Godzone
    They are available everywhere. It's a standard Fender part. Do a 4-way switch search. Oak Grigsby supply US and Mexico Fender switches
     
    Chino likes this.
  18. Chino

    Chino Tele-Meister

    Age:
    65
    Posts:
    283
    Joined:
    May 2, 2019
    Location:
    Seattle
    Ah cool, I did not realize Fender makes a 4 way switch. Thanks.
     
  19. John C

    John C Friend of Leo's

    Posts:
    3,925
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2005
    Location:
    Kansas City
    Chino - do you know how the person rewired you AVRI Tele? I used to have one; when I bought it back in 2004 the tech who changed the guitar to modern wiring discussed 2 ways that he could do the update. The kit that comes with the guitar has a different capacitor that replaces the capacitor on the tone pot. He said that he could either update to that capacitor or keep the original capacitor - this is not the "dark circuit" capacitor that is activated in position 3, but the capacitor that is active in positions 1 and 2 with the tone pot. I chose to keep the original vintage capacitor and only have the "dark circuit" capacitor removed when he changed the switch to modern (i.e. bridge/both/neck).

    Maybe your tech put in the "Modern" capacitor - they are close but have a slightly different value which could be accounting for the changes you're hearing. Caveat - I'm not a wiring guy; I'm just going by what this guy told me when I bought the guitar - in fact I didn't even bring it home until after they changed the wiring as I bought it from a local store.
     
    Chino likes this.
  20. Chino

    Chino Tele-Meister

    Age:
    65
    Posts:
    283
    Joined:
    May 2, 2019
    Location:
    Seattle
    Wow John, very interesting. No, I have no idea how he did it; I just told him the capacitor and the instructions were in the case. Had I known then what you’re telling me, I would have asked him to keep the vintage capacitor. I’m sure he did whatever the instructions say to do. I wish Fender would put that info in the instructions. In fact, why even enclose a different capacitor? I’ll be playing it later today so I’ll have a better idea of how it sounds now. Did yours sound the same before and after, except for the dark circuit? Thanks!
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
IMPORTANT: Treat everyone here with respect, no matter how difficult!
No sex, drug, political, religion or hate discussion permitted here.