Astros Busted! Red Sox Next?!

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Texicaster, Jan 13, 2020.

  1. getbent

    getbent Telefied Silver Supporter

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    my secretary just bumped the trash can... here comes the feebie!
     
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  2. stealyerface

    stealyerface Tele-Afflicted

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    The funny part of the steroid era was how the cheating was justified...

    The pitchers claimed they were doing it to keep the game on an even par with the batters who were doing it...to keep on par with the pitchers.

    This crazy circle legitimized it in the eyes of the cheater.

    If player A has an unfair advantage, and therefore is being awarded a bigger salary and a bigger contract, using me as his stepping stone to get there, why should I be allowing him to benefit while feasting on my pitching?

    I don’t condone it, but I get it.

    The worst thing I ever did (to myself) was going through gallons of Absorbine Jr. It smelled like a combo platter of camphor and Vick’s Vapo Rub, and it sure made my elbow feel better.

    But certainly not as good as some of other stuff that could have made it feel a Whole Lot better.

    Had it been readily available, even for someone with no fairy-tale notion of making the big leagues, I’d have done it in a second. Getting huge and hitting 500 foot aluminum-bat homeruns is one thing.

    Not hurting every single day would have been another.

    ~syf
     
  3. fendertx

    fendertx Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    Don't misconstrue my ramblings, as much as want to find a way to still legitimize that season I know it's tainted. As a fan you never want your team to be the bad guys even when they are.
     
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  4. supersoldier71

    supersoldier71 Tele-Holic

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    https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/pete-rose-astros-cheating-was-worse-than-my-bets/ar-BBYWY4k

    Pete being Pete.
     
  5. Dan Skammer

    Dan Skammer Tele-Meister

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    Gee, I guess you told me !
     
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  6. DougM

    DougM Friend of Leo's

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    Gaylord Perry had T-shirts that read "300 wins is nothing to spit at!"
     
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  7. getbent

    getbent Telefied Silver Supporter

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  8. stratoman1

    stratoman1 Friend of Leo's

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    Shoot, I'd like the tight camera angles into pitchers gloves and infield conversations go away too
     
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  9. Texicaster

    Texicaster Tele-Afflicted

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    And....

    Alex Cora is gone.....
     
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  10. getbent

    getbent Telefied Silver Supporter

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    I think lets play a game!

    If there are 8 teams who cheated... who are the other 6... I'm going to make my list, you share yours... closest to right wins!

    Astro(*isks)
    Ret Socks

    Dodgers
    White Sox
    Cubs
    Mariners
    Cardinals
    Braves
     
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  11. Texicaster

    Texicaster Tele-Afflicted

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    Hmmm.. I made a couple suggestions of teams/players who seemed to change over night but I'll refrain from doubling down on accusing them further.

    I wonder what metric would be a key indicator?

    Banging trash cans can't convey that much information. FB, slider, curve, change up, then divide zone into 9 sections plus in the dirt...that's 40 options.... They'd have to be banging Morse Code!

    I think it could only help a batter who is a sucker for one particular pitch and clue them to lay off. Or a player who is a monster for a particular pitch.

    They've been playing baseball for a long time and with exception of the PED era few players made quantum leaps year to year. There's a deep data base of stats and it should be easy to spot if you crunch the numbers...
     
  12. VWAmTele

    VWAmTele Friend of Leo's

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    Disagree. Just knowing the speed of the pitch is the most important advantage in hitting. The first thing your eyes see is the location, last is the speed. Timing is *almost* everything. In the words of the great Warren Spahn "Hitting is timing, pitching is upsetting timing".
     
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  13. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Friend of Leo's

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    Stealing signs is one of the oldest tricks in the book. The crime is really using technology to do it.

    I say that if they actually care about it stopping: 1) Permanently ban from MLB and any associated minor leagues everybody with any knowledge of it, including players, no matter how good or how famous. You get caught cheating, your professional baseball career is over, period, end of story. 2) Vacate the historical record of the championship for the years in question, and take back the rings. Let the official record state that there was no World Series winner that year. 3) Purge historical records of any stats earned during games in question. 4) Make the team pay back all gross income taken in due to the fact that they won the championship (this is a HUGE amount of money, and impossible to calculate precisely...but do your best, League). 5) Ban the club from MLB for 10 years. 6) Force the cheating team to cover that entire year's budget of the team that was cheated.

    Only by coming down with that extreme level of financial assault will things like this be prevented in the future.

    But preventing cheating isn't really the goal. Making zillions is. Decisions will always be made with that in mind. They'll act like they sort of care...and they do sort of care. But in the end, they won't force anyone to suffer a truly extreme financial cost because of it...therefore it will continue.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  14. Texicaster

    Texicaster Tele-Afflicted

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    Maybe but...

    Let's look at DeGrom's 2019 stats:
    http://www.brooksbaseball.net/tabs.phpplayer=594798&time=&startDate=03/30/2007&endDate=01/14/2020&s_type=2

    Thumbnail.

    Throws 5 pitches. 4 seam, sinker, change up, slider, curve.

    4 seam and sinker 55% of the pitches at ~95mph, Change and slider 35% at ~90mph.

    Tell me how you could convey 4 seam or sinker? Change or slider? Those pitches are not the same... Knowing speed won't help at all...

    So you'd need a code for at least 4 pitches and still be guessing... Obviously it helps but doesn't seem worth it to me as we've seen work out in the long run...
     
  15. VWAmTele

    VWAmTele Friend of Leo's

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    Texicaster - nothing you're saying in incorrect - but if you had to pick just one factor of a pitch - speed, location, movement, up, down,,, speed jumps to the front of the line.
     
  16. Texicaster

    Texicaster Tele-Afflicted

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    I don't know... maybe more than 1/5 info but is that better than guessing or knowing the pitchers tendencies, past plate appearances? You're considering this without taking training into consideration. If I'm a FB hitter against DeGrom I can expect off speed more than 50%. Good pitchers are more on location and movement. Chapman goes right at batters with 4 seam.... bang on trash cans all you want I want to know where it's aimed!
     
  17. scrapyardblue

    scrapyardblue Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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  18. stealyerface

    stealyerface Tele-Afflicted

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    All you have to know is:
    Fastball or not.

    Offspeed covers everything that isn’t a fastball.

    When you let a professional batter know that what is coming isn’t a fastball, he can tell from the release that the ball wont end up in the strike zone. Or, conversely, that he has a ton of time to sit back and wait on the location, as he does not need to be geared up to time the heater.

    Watch the video last year of the game where someone was sending Bregman of the Astros the pitches. He was watching absolutely filthy pitches go by, pitches he could never decipher in time to just spit on as they went by.

    He knew they weren’t going to stay on plane, and didn’t even bother to offer on them.

    You don’t have to tell a pro the actual pitch, location, quadrant, etc... All they need to know is quick or sit.

    Most folks have never stepped in a batter’s box against a guy throwing mid 90’s and the option to spin a mid 80’s curveball on the next pitch. It is terrifying. Seriously.

    Being given the info that you can already know the ball headed for your face is going to bend into the strike zone is more than invaluable.

    Realize that by this insider info, one more hit a week turns a .230 hitter into a .300 hitter. You hit .300+ for a career, and you can wave to Pete on your way up the stairs to The Hall.

    ~syf
     
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  19. Average_Joe

    Average_Joe Tele-Holic

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    Astro(*isks) - that's a good one!
     
  20. Texicaster

    Texicaster Tele-Afflicted

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    I think it's a bit more complicated that FB or off speed....Explain Trevor Hoffman....and a host of other highly successful pitchers who threw basically one pitch 90% of the time. You know speed but not break or location and flail away. Fact is you rarely KNOW what the pitch is going to do. Good pitchers throw bad strikes that are hard to hit. Pitchers don't just throw the same heat every pitch. A FB can vary as much as off speed for some..

    But I agree with the heinousness of the cheating.

    It's really gonna be a drag to be an Astro in 2020! It's no worse than PED or doctoring the baseball or "stealing" sign from second but I think the public will be less forgiving.... much less the other teams..

    Look for the Astros to lead the league in HBP in 2020!
     
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