Astros Busted! Red Sox Next?!

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Texicaster, Jan 13, 2020.

  1. Texicaster

    Texicaster Tele-Afflicted

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    I can be assured my beloved Padres were NOT cheating... if there's to be a silver lining about this...
     
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  2. getbent

    getbent Telefied Silver Supporter

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    that is the voice of an Arizona fan... it has been a long haul... the only mistake Arizona made was even inviting major league sports into the state....

    go Phoenix Giants!
     
  3. daddyplaysbass

    daddyplaysbass Tele-Afflicted

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    If you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin !
     
  4. bftfender

    bftfender Poster Extraordinaire

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    it's like when i saw a certain band live in 90's....the sound guy blew it...the song was playing in the background & he didnt catch the next part...then to try & correct real fast another song with vocals came on to anew...they had that whole show piped in the PA backing track & vocals,,,,so wish we had camera phones then,,,nothing like a band caught cheating,,some milli vanilli stuff goin on
     
  5. getbent

    getbent Telefied Silver Supporter

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    you'll note... no Astros players have been punished in this ruling. Logic and Facts 1, Strato50 0
     
  6. fendertx

    fendertx Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    I see the Dodgers fans pushing their claim to being "cheated" out of two Championships. I get it, but as a Houston fan I want to find a way to legitimize the win despite what we now now(I realize I can't:().
    I thought the report was interesting in addressing the players specifically.

    Some Astros players told my investigators that they did not believe the sign-stealing scheme was effective, and it was more distracting than useful to hitters. I am neither in a position to evaluate whether the scheme helped Astros hitters (who were unquestionably a very talented group), nor whether it helped the Astros win any games. There are so many factors that impact the outcome of games that addressing that issue would require rank speculation. But for purposes of my decision, regardless of whether the scheme was effective or not, it violated the rules and, at a minimum, created the appearance of unfairness, and for that, it necessitates severe discipline.

    That part about speculating makes me want to use that and say hey, we don't know how things would have ended up if the games would have been played straight up. I get it though, it's just not a credible approach.
    So I am resigned to the fact that the Championship is tarnished, in hindsight. I still have the feeling and memories from that run and finally winning it all and they feel pure, so as an Astros fan that is what we are left with.
    It's a shame too, the Astros were tied for the best road record in the Bigs that year. They proved they could hit on the road, they should have trusted their bats at home.
     
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  7. Strato50

    Strato50 Tele-Afflicted

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    They might as well be. I mean if they are serious about cleaning up baseball. Right?
     
  8. Strato50

    Strato50 Tele-Afflicted

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    Exactly why I think it had no effect on the game.
     
  9. Bellacaster

    Bellacaster Tele-Afflicted

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    Exactly. No one's fastball gets better with age.
     
  10. -Hawk-

    -Hawk- Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    Sorry, but of course some of the players would say cheating didn’t help them. Their numbers equal their paycheck and longevity in an extremely competitive sport. Millions of dollars are at stake based on those numbers. If it didn’t help, they could have asked the can-bangers to just skip their turn at bat.

    The reality is you still have to hit, but knowing when to sit fastball is an unquestionable benefit. I’m amazed it would even be a question, but again - emotions can take over the rational mind pretty easily with sports.
     
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  11. lammie200

    lammie200 Friend of Leo's

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    Doesn't matter if it did or didn't. It is against the rules. If I attempt to shoot a random stranger and the gun jams I am still guilty of attempted murder, or at least guilty of attempted to inflict grave bodily harm. It ain't a good look.
     
  12. tap4154

    tap4154 Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Just curious if some team members hated this, but didn't have the guts to say anything. I think (hope) if I was on a team and a scam like this came up, I'd say something, or even leave. Quite an insult to resort to "we have to cheat to win", isn't it? How do you celebrate a WS "win" when you know you cheated? It's why Johnny Carson stopped golfing. So many folks he played with cheated.
     
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  13. fendertx

    fendertx Poster Extraordinaire Silver Supporter

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    That was the oddest par to the report. Hinch said he smashed monitors on two occasions to show he disapproved. What weak leadership if his only action was a passive aggressive move like that. Call the entire team in and say "THIS STOPS NOW".
    The players suggesting they knew it was wrong but were afraid to speak up makes me think of two scenarios. One, its a toxic culture. Two, it sounds like a CYA statement.
    Just disappointing as a fan of the team.
     
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  14. supersoldier71

    supersoldier71 Tele-Holic

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    TBH, I didn’t feel any outrage about PEDs. Still don’t.

    This type of cheating is different though because this, like gambling, undermine the integrity of the score. Gambling even more so because one of the reasons nothing attracts advertising dollars like live sports is because the outcome is not predetermined, people do watch live, and they’ll sit through the commercials rather than recording it and skipping all the ads.

    People will watch because the outcome is unknown. But if we inject a little bit of doubt into that equation, the wheels on that bus fall off.


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  15. Skully

    Skully Doctor of Teleocity

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    Ha!

    Uh, huh. Remember all that talk about how they were able to take advantage of Yu Darvish tipping his pitches?
     
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  16. getbent

    getbent Telefied Silver Supporter

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    Part of that was that Beltran and Cora had the political power to resist Hinch. This happened in the Vlad Guerrero clubhouse when he was an Angel... it was a coalition to a degree... and an uneasy (but successful) peace.

    The Astros will adjust... remember, it was just a couple years ago that the Cardinals hacked the Astros computer system (prison was part of the sentence) and stole information to gain advantage.

    My brother's brother in law went to prison for embezzlement and fraud. I've known him for most of my adult life. He has always been friendly and kind and reliable and had this not occurred, a 'good guy'... He did 3.5 years in prison. when I see him (rare, but happens) I'm always friendly and I still like him.. but, his actions changed the arc of his life and his ENTIRE families forever. It doesn't matter that other dudes did the same thing and didn't go to prison or that other people did worse and got less time... what matters is what he did. I hope in paying his debt to a society that trusted him, he won't repeat, but I'll be looking out of the corner of my eye.

    Whoever else is doing stuff they shouldn't be... well, if they get caught, they should get punished.
     
  17. VWAmTele

    VWAmTele Friend of Leo's

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    I think PEDs are just as bad or worse. A lot of baseball for me growing up was numbers - season records, career records, … these are all skewed forever now and are meaningless. 73 HRs? Nobody is ever going to beat that without PEDs - by allowing Bonds stats to stand they have cemented in that number forever. And it shouldn't be. IMO Roger Maris's 61 is still the real single season record and Aaron's 755 is still the career record.
     
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  18. supersoldier71

    supersoldier71 Tele-Holic

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    Yeah I get that. I played Earl Weaver Baseball when I was a kid and I could remember specific numbers for specific players because that’s a thing in baseball.

    Bob Gibson 22-9 1.12 ERA
    Ty Cobb .420 BA
    Denny McLain 31-8 (I think) with maybe a 1.81 ERA

    Those are off the top of my head: the numbers mattered.

    But the PEDs still made for compelling TV regardless.


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  19. djh22

    djh22 Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    The MLBPA & collective bargaining is why the players "get a pass."


    When I was in my early 20s, I was surrounded by folks willing to go to extremes to make it. Some, like me, had simply gone as far as their talent would allow. Some had enjoyed a taste and were desperate to return. We all dealt with it differently, and while I am thankful for the advice to take my degree and get on with my life, in my heart of hearts ... well, I can't honestly say that I would have avoided PEDs if they offered an opportunity to wear a major league uniform.
     
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  20. supersoldier71

    supersoldier71 Tele-Holic

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    Oh no! I’m not even gonna tell that lie. If they’d been available and I thought they’d get me where I wanted to go, and they weren’t even banned from my sport? No, given those conditions, I’d have been ALL over whatever was offered.


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