Astros Busted! Red Sox Next?!

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Texicaster, Jan 13, 2020.

  1. Texicaster

    Texicaster Tele-Afflicted

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    Yikes!

    Astros had penalties levied and went beyond and dumped Hinch and GM Luhnow!

    Rumor has it, it was Cora, (Red Sox current manager) that instigated the sign stealing program....

    Glad to see MLB taking it serious but believe me in 2020 there's no need to be banging trashcans to relay signs! I'm sure there's much more sophisticated and stealthy approaches the sport will be faced with.

    I also think pitchers and catchers can work it out better too to avoid detection, just like with a man on 2nd...

    Can't wait for Spring Training 2020!
     
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  2. JL_LI

    JL_LI Friend of Leo's

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    Unfortunately cheating is endemic to sports, both professional and college. My wife and I allowed our older son to play football in high school, but only because we knew the coach and knew he wouldn’t tolerate any nonsense. Once in college, both of our sons focused on their studies. We’re proud of how they turned out and neither of them cheated to get there.
     
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  3. FLHT

    FLHT Tele-Meister

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    It seems odd that they only get a one year suspension for cheating, while Pete Rose is banned for life for gambling. What they did is far worse than what Pete did, in my opinion.
     
  4. Preacher

    Preacher Friend of Leo's

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    Agreed compared to Pete and I believe it was never proven that he bet against his own team.

    Although I am not sure a 1 year ban should be enough. I am thinking more like so many games so if they get picked up they have to set out that many games.
    And if Cora was involved and it sure sounds like he was the Sox may be looking for a manger too.
     
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  5. VWAmTele

    VWAmTele Friend of Leo's

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    Cora will get worse than Hinch - maybe banned for life, and he would deserve it.
     
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  6. televillian

    televillian Tele-Afflicted

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    cheating is traditional
     
  7. supersoldier71

    supersoldier71 Tele-Holic

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    Sort of. If you’re actively involved in the outcome of the game, NOT betting that day is a de facto bet against your team.

    MLB and ESPN discovered tendencies with regard to how he used his bullpen in games on which he’d bet that were consistent over time.

    But the Astros compromised the game in a similarly egregious way, so if they get the Perma Ban, I’m fine with it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. FLHT

    FLHT Tele-Meister

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    Correct, Pete never bet against his own team. If he'd done that, I'd agree with banning him for life.

    That's a great point you made about being banned for a number of games instead of a set time. I like that idea, and yeah, it doesn't look too good for Cora.

    I'm a Red Sox fan from way back. I grew up in NH and went to many games at Fenway with my dad and my uncle when I was youngster. This was back in the days of Tony Conigliaro and Yaz. About 15 years ago I was back there for a visit and I suggested going to a game with my uncle for old times sake. He said it would cost us 200 bucks and another 40 bucks just to park the car. We didn't go.
     
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  9. FLHT

    FLHT Tele-Meister

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    That's an interesting take, I hadn't considered that. I'm not 100% sure I agree with it, but it is a valid point.
     
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  10. getbent

    getbent Telefied Silver Supporter

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    https://thegruelingtruth.com/baseball/pete-rose-bet-reds-let-show/

    I believe you believe Pete, but Pete is and has always been a complete liar and bad person. He has gone to prison, he has been found to be a wife beater, a philanderer and a cheat. Pete lied in court in the drug trial when he was a Phillie (the Schmidt, Lerch, Rose case)... he is A) a great baseball player B) a turd and scoundrel.

    The evidence that Pete Rose bet while playing and managing is clear. He did.

    The evidence that he bet against the Reds while a manager was never released by the commissioner's office, but they have never rescinded his ban which the office said they would never rescind if he bet against his team. Do the math.

    Cheating and benefitting in wins and losses when in a position (manager) to control an outcome is a direct threat to the sport as a viable sport (vs being something like wrestling.)

    Pete got what he deserved.

    On this cheating case... the year suspension (and the subsequent firing is a pretty good start.) The Cora's were, as a family, always a little grimy, so, I'm not surprised, Beltran... meh... Lifetime ban would be fine and would be the deterrent the game needs.. but, a year worked for Sean Payton and Gregg Williams, so, that should work too.
     
  11. stealyerface

    stealyerface Tele-Afflicted

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    There is a difference in the cheating alleged.

    One team was watching the signs unfold via clubhouse TV, real-time, and relaying signals to batters as the signs were stolen, and the pitch was on the way.

    The other team was looking at the catcher's signs via the clubhouse TV, and figuring out what the signs put down by the catcher were. Then, once a guy was on base, using that information, assuming there was not a change in the signs, or assuming they hadn't changed the indicator, the second base runner sent that information to the batter.

    Both are cheating. However, there will be different penalties levied, as these were two entirely different methods.

    I am sticking with my stance that if you allow me to decipher the code, on the field, all is fair in love and war.

    Using video equipment to steal the signs is not acceptable.

    Both methods are cheating, but sending real-time, pre-pitch codes to the batter, is much more egregious, IMO

    ~syf
     
  12. stealyerface

    stealyerface Tele-Afflicted

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    Watch any interview where they flat out ask him if he had ever bet on his own team.

    Watch how he looks down, to the left, won't maintain eye contact, the pitch of his voice changes...

    Pete may be a professional liar, but he isn't, nor was he ever, a good one.

    I'd bet the ranch (so to speak) that he bet on his own team, and lots and lots of times.

    He's a terrible liar.
    ~syf
     
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  13. getbent

    getbent Telefied Silver Supporter

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    What is the worst thing about Pete Rose is how we loved him so. We believed in him and we gave him so much adulation and respect and he completely abused and disrespected it.

    He knows he can never be on record admitting the truth and even have a CHANCE at being reinstated... so, he sticks with the lie. We need to not aid and abet him.
     
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  14. otterhound

    otterhound Poster Extraordinaire

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    In baseball, stealing is legal . Not to mention endorsed and rewarded .
     
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  15. otterhound

    otterhound Poster Extraordinaire

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    I never cared for Pete , but you have it right to the letter . Pete screwed himself simply because he refused to be humble .
     
  16. stealyerface

    stealyerface Tele-Afflicted

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    Roger Clemens anyone!?!?!

    I loved that guy, have more memorabilia signed by him than anyone should, and he has to take his lie to his grave.

    That Toronto resurrection was not Maple Leaf cookies and poutine.

    ~syf
     
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  17. djh22

    djh22 Tele-Afflicted Silver Supporter

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    +1

    Guess the Astros really weren't the smartest guys in the clubhouse - https://newrepublic.com/article/155863/houston-astros-cheaters-2017-world-series-mckinsey-problem

    In my experience, the signs were pretty much the same from Babe Ruth through to Class A, but I think that the Nats have gone to the next level - https://bleacherreport.com/articles...ssible-sign-stealing-during-2019-world-series
     
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  18. FLHT

    FLHT Tele-Meister

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    I'm actually not a Pete Rose fan, and don't think much of him as a person, but I think if the commissioner's office had evidence of him betting against his own team, they would've said so. I read your link and it goes along with what supersoldier71 said above. It makes a good case that I hadn't considered before.
     
  19. stealyerface

    stealyerface Tele-Afflicted

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    My gut feeling is that they had plenty of evidence, but there was an agreement in place. The squelching of that evidence would allow the Pete fans and the "believers" to cling to a thread of hope that, while he may have bet on baseball, he never bet on his own team.

    The flip side to that squelching is that he would NEVER, EVER get a pass to The Hall.

    Pete is officially in purgatory. While he may camp out in front of 25 Main St. with a Sharpie, a card table and a box of balls, he'll never get inside.

    Ever.

    ~syf
     
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  20. stealyerface

    stealyerface Tele-Afflicted

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    Ha!! We used to roll "Outs plus One" with guys at second base!!! We never had quarterback sleeves, but my son's High School team has magnetic flip downs on their belts. All signs from the third base coach are based on the indicator slider that sets the scheme, and then the number he yells.

    They step out of the batter's box, he yells, "Twenty-Four", they flip down the key and know the call.

    No one is stealing those signs, and the indicator changes every inning...

    ~syf
     
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