Are solid state amps a risky buy, considering repair ability after warranty expiration

[RLangham98]

Analog solid state? Extremely safe buy. It’s such a simple device… computers with billions of transistors in one IC eventually cook themselves to death, but an SS amp based on simple ICs or discrete components shouldn’t be dissipating enough heat to really damage itself.

Now it’s very unclear to me if modeling amps will be as durable, since they’re computers. My VTX was having weird problems and making weird sounds when I finally got a tube amp to replace it.

 

[Jupiter]

that Morgan sounds great btw

 

[vernon]

Life is risky

 

[tery]

SS amps are OK.

 

[northernguitar]

I have a silver-stripe Bandit that has fallen off chairs, tables, countertops, tailgates, etc. and all damage was to whatever the amp landed on. The Sheffield speaker did eventually have a problem with coil rattle, but I threw in a Celestion 70/80, which only improved the tone.

 

[Lawdawg]

Now it’s very unclear to me if modeling amps will be as durable, since they’re computers. My VTX was having weird problems and making weird sounds when I finally got a tube amp to replace it.

Fair point, and it's too early to tell. That said, I've still got digital synths from the 80s and 90s that work just fine 30-40 years down the road, and this is gear that got gigged pretty hard in the 80s and 90s. The most common failure rates on this stuff tend to be cheap and easy to repair -- dead internal batteries, dead lcd screens, worn out disk drives. I love my tube amps, but relatively speaking they're far more fragile than even my cheapest digital gear.

 

[northernguitar]

Fair point, and it's too early to tell. That said, I've still got digital synths from the 80s and 90s that work just fine 30-40 years down the road, and this is gear that got gigged pretty hard in the 80s and 90s. The most common failure rates on this stuff tend to be cheap and easy to repair -- dead internal batteries, dead lcd screens, worn out disk drives. I love my tube amps, but relatively speaking they're far more fragile than even my cheapest digital gear.

I don’t like rotary switches over the long run.

 

[11 Gauge]

Analog solid state? Extremely safe buy. It’s such a simple device… computers with billions of transistors in one IC eventually cook themselves to death, but an SS amp based on simple ICs or discrete components shouldn’t be dissipating enough heat to really damage itself.

Now it’s very unclear to me if modeling amps will be as durable, since they’re computers. My VTX was having weird problems and making weird sounds when I finally got a tube amp to replace it.

IMO, whether it's analog or digital does not matter, as long as it's well designed and constructed.

We already know that modeling amps can be durable, since there's tons of computers and other digital devices that have worked flawlessly for decades now.

I think it's kind of ridiculous to focus on the durability of modeling tech beyond possibly even five years, much like many of us don't worry about that with smart phones, laptops, and other current digital tech, because something new will replace it within just a few years.

Anyway, I've had a good bit of all sorts of SS stuff going back to the late 70's. I've only had two failures in all this time that I can remember. One was my '77 Peavey Backstage 30 fried a few transistors in like '81 or something, and cost next to nothing for a tech to repair. The other was a Polytone Mini Brute that I got in the 00's after it had been really abused by its previous owners. When it stopped making sound, I discovered too many of the parts were obsolete to repair it.

I also want to comment and say that all of the newer SS stuff that I bought from the 00's forward, which many might say is not built as durable as the older stuff, all continues to work the same as it did when it was new.

I think SS is a pretty safe bet, and I also like that it's mostly maintenance-free. That is my biggest gripe with the tube stuff right now.

 

[Musekatcher]

In general, techs are disappearing, and that's for all electronics not just amps. And SMD construction is taking over, and not really serviceable at remote sites. The good news is, repair for modern builds is no more than replacing a board. The bad news is, they redesign these so often, parts disappear after a few years, precisely when you need them, lol.

I have one SMD device that I really like. I bought two backups. One has already failed, so Im down to one backup. Thats my approach to mitigate the tech-scare trend.

 

[Blrfl]

Transistor stuff wave soldered or surface mounted was never meant to be fixed. It's disposable.

That's bunk. There's a set of tools and skills required to service surface-mount parts just like anything else. Just because people who've worked on nothing but tube amps since 1970 don't have either doesn't mean the product is a lost cause. I didn't go to a podiatrist to get my sinus problems fixed for the same reason. Not sure how wave soldering fits into this discussion other than maybe you're trying to imply that it's less good because it wasn't hand-soldered by dwarf monks cloistered in a cave outside of Burbank, which is also bunk.

The shift from through-hole to surface-mount parts began in the early 1990s and was pretty much complete by the middle of that decade. This is how most things that aren't sprinkled with magic guitar-stuff mojo have been built ever since. Cars, medical devices and a very-long list of other things are built this way and, while I won't say the failure rate is zero, it's very, very low thanks to excellent quality control. The low-skilled labor used to assemble cheap electronics 40 years ago is no longer economically-competitive with modern methods, so even cheap stuff reaps the benefits. The last piece of failed electronics I had to repair for non-wear-and-tear reasons was built in the early 1980s with the aforementioned low-skilled labor. The cause? A failed joint that was hand-soldered.

Most things that fail are, actually, repairable. What makes them disposable isn't the technology, it's the economics: spending less money to swap out an entire board or replace the entire unit makes more sense than spending more money in labor for diagnostics and repairs. A $300 guitar amp bought today would have been a $30 item in 1965. The cost of repairs would have been reason for cheap amps back then to go into the landfill. There's a lot of suvivorship bias because '65 Twin Reverbs are still around, but the $479 MSRP that year would have been $5,000 in today's dollars, which is high-end boutique amp money.

 

[ClashCityTele]

I'm still using my 1974 Carlsbro Stingray Super with no problems.
It's had scratchy pots replaced (with originals) & I replaced two large caps as one was leaking.
I also have a fully working 1990 Fender red knob Deluxe 85 (& a TMDR).
SS amps are very fixable.

 

[Trenchant63]

My Panasonic boombox lasted 40 years. It had a PCB and I made sure no tubes inside. I think the speaker surrounds were rotting or something. I think that was a good run for the money!! My brother has our old Lafayette stereo receiver (25W per channel) from 1974 in his garage. PCB - all controls work fine with maybe a little static when adjusting - needs a spray maybe.

 

[gwjensen]

Good stuff here. Thanks for all the comments.

I just bought a used Morgan MVP23 (now evaluating and within return period). I have also been considering returning it and picking up one of Laney's new Lionhearted Foundry amps (solid state), which are getting stellar reviews.

But as I tweak the amazing controis on the Morgan (preamp gain, output tubes volume, and power scaling control, including the very potent three band tone controls) and examine the beefy baltic void-free plywood cabinet, and listen to the incredible variety of natural preamp tube and power amp tube overtones and harmonics... I've pretty much convinced myself to hang on to the Morgan and skip the Laney solid state, nice and affordable as it is.

I don't play out, so my amps comfortably reside in my music room at all times.

If I were to play out, I'd buy the Laney for sure to at least check it out. It would probably be a very sensible amp for gigging with - light weight, reliable, good tone and all that.

But when it comes to the incredibly wide range of tonal adjustments from clean to multiple combinations of preamp tube drive and power tube drive, this Morgan is quite a gem.

It seems likely that if it needs any service or repairs, those can be fairly easily squared away by a competent amp tech, for many years to come. In truth, it will almost certainly out live my ability to use it.

The downside of this Morgan, if you would consider it that, is that there is an infinite variety of available tone qualities on tap with the potent controls and the Power Scaling feature, which is a huge benefit in my view. The ability to get great sounding combinations of natural preamp and/or power amp overdrive - scaled down to home music studio volumes is very important to me.

PRODUCT SPECS
• Variable Power - 0.25w - 23w
• Hand-Wired in The USA
• Cathode Biased Class A
• Power Scaling Control
• Gain, Volume, Treble, Mid, & Bass
• 2 x EL-84 Power Tubes
• 2 x 12AX7 Preamp Tubes
• Celestion G12H75 Creamback Loaded

This great video by Shawn Tubbs (awesome playing!) really reveals the incredible tone possibilities, and all are available at any desired output volume.



So thank you all for your input on solid state amplifiers. There may be one for me down the road, but for now I think the Morgan will stay with me, along with my much loved (yes, solid state) Yamaha THR10, which I hope to continue to enjoy for years to come.

The MVP23 is a fun and very versatile amp. I've had the head and matching cab for about three years now and it's a keeper. I've been considering the Lionhearts as well, but not gonna sell the Morgan to get one.

 

[Trenchant63]

plate of spaghetti

Tell me about it. I had a local amp guy custom build a blackface amp circuit for me that looks a mess!!

 

[WireLine]

The only problem I ever ran into was availability of certain components. For years my absolute GO-TO rig included a BlueTube II preamp and a MOSVALVE 962 power amp. When it started giving me trouble I contacted a former Genz Benz tech now working for Mesa Boogie who informed that some of the components were scarce, if not unobtanium now.

 

[Heartbreaker_Esq]

I think of the "risky buy" question a bit differently. For me, it's not about "will this thing last forever" or "will it eventually be trash". Instead, I think "Am I likely to get enough time/use out of it to make it worth what I paid?" If I buy an amp for $20 on Craigslist and it craps out on me in 9 months, that's a bummer, but I probably got $20 worth of playtime out of it, so it's all good. If a $1,000 amp craps out in 9 months, that's a different story.

I bought a TMDR a few years ago. It's been my primary amp all that time, taking it to gigs and practices, leaving it in hot cars all day, etc., and it's never given me a second of trouble. Always works perfectly, whether gigging, playing at home, or recording with the XLR out.

With that said, I didn't buy it thinking I would still be playing it in 2050. I paid about $800 for it, and I bought it hoping I would get at least $800 worth of use out of it. The concept of the value of using something is nebulous, so I can't tell you exactly what that means in terms of years - maybe 5-10 years? Maybe less because I use it for everything? Obviously, it would be preferable if everything lasted forever and could always be repaired cheaply. But if my TMDR lasted for 20 years before something irreparable went wrong, I'll feel like I got more than my money's worth out of it.

 

[RLangham98]

I don’t like rotary switches over the long run.

It depends what kind and how easy they are to replace. I’ve seen some high voltage rotary switches in old radio testing equipment that are probably good for several hundred thousand cycles. They’re not fundamentally different from the traditional blade switches in teles and strats, just with thicker wafers and wider thicker terminals.

We already know that modeling amps can be durable, since there's tons of computers and other digital devices that have worked flawlessly for decades now.

There are but most consumer digital electronics are simply not built to adequately handle temperature cycling, breakdown of electrolytic capacitors, mechanical wear and tear on the controls, stress on the PCB’s from being handled frequently, et cetera.

A computer can last many years, but most don’t is the thing. Most PC’s are a good bit more “built” than a typical modeling amp, and most PC’s don’t last more than a few years, for reasons that have little to do with planned obsolescence or even software obsolescence. Dust builds up. Heat dissipation becomes insufficient, degrading the thermal paste and causing even worse dissipation. Eventually it runs so hot and slow you have to replace it.

Like sure, the Voyager is still out there with its main computer more or less online, but a PC or a modeling amp aren’t designed by JPL engineers.

 

[11 Gauge]

There are but most consumer digital electronics are simply not built to adequately handle temperature cycling, breakdown of electrolytic capacitors, mechanical wear and tear on the controls, stress on the PCB’s from being handled frequently, et cetera.

A computer can last many years, but most don’t is the thing. Most PC’s are a good bit more “built” than a typical modeling amp, and most PC’s don’t last more than a few years, for reasons that have little to do with planned obsolescence or even software obsolescence. Dust builds up. Heat dissipation becomes insufficient, degrading the thermal paste and causing even worse dissipation. Eventually it runs so hot and slow you have to replace it.

Like sure, the Voyager is still out there with its main computer more or less online, but a PC or a modeling amp aren’t designed by JPL engineers.

All of my computers - both laptop and desktop - have lasted without failure. This goes all the way back to the Commodore 64 I got in ~'86. It also includes a Toshiba Satellite bought new in '10 - it's still plugged in in my basement. I never use it, but it still works.

I also have an old Mac Pro tower that I bought reconditioned in '11 or so. I maxed it out with memory and used it for software development, home recording, and all kinds of other stuff. I had to retire it a couple of years ago simply because the OS was no longer updateable, which affected the software I could run on it. I could still power it up right now and use it, though.

So from my direct experiences, all of these products seem to have been properly designed and constructed, and haven't died due to dust, heat, normal wear and tear, or failed electrolytic caps.

Really the only thing I've seen wear out over time has been external mechanical drives or removable media, but that's no different than cassettes or other similar media. And that's now pretty much a moot point with the currently-built stuff.

Anyway, I still think the whole durability thing with digital stuff is now pointless. It's not the reason I don't use my '05 Mac Mini any longer. It's also not the reason why I stopped using my '03 Line 6 Spider II. It's also not the reason I stopped using my Lexicon MPX-1000. It's also not the reason I stopped using my ~'97 Zoom 505.

 

[RLangham98]

All of my computers - both laptop and desktop - have lasted without failure. This goes all the way back to the Commodore 64 I got in ~'86. It also includes a Toshiba Satellite bought new in '10 - it's still plugged in in my basement. I never use it, but it still works.

I also have an old Mac Pro tower that I bought reconditioned in '11 or so. I maxed it out with memory and used it for software development, home recording, and all kinds of other stuff. I had to retire it a couple of years ago simply because the OS was no longer updateable, which affected the software I could run on it. I could still power it up right now and use it, though.

So from my direct experiences, all of these products seem to have been properly designed and constructed, and haven't died due to dust, heat, normal wear and tear, or failed electrolytic caps.

Really the only thing I've seen wear out over time has been external mechanical drives or removable media, but that's no different than cassettes or other similar media. And that's now pretty much a moot point with the currently-built stuff.

Anyway, I still think the whole durability thing with digital stuff is now pointless. It's not the reason I don't use my '05 Mac Mini any longer. It's also not the reason why I stopped using my '03 Line 6 Spider II. It's also not the reason I stopped using my Lexicon MPX-1000. It's also not the reason I stopped using my ~'97 Zoom 505.

I mean an old Toshiba Satellite is also built better than a modeling amp. And a modeling amp’s main processor surely dissipates more heat than a Z80 in a C64.

I’m still not convinced that they’ll last as long in practice as analog solid state.

 

[sadfield]

Most items won't need repairing. I don't really hold with the notion that solid state and dsp items are unreliable, rather more reliable than old design valve amps. There's plenty of synths, samplers, drum machines, rack modules, fx pedals from the 70's, 80's and 90's,still going strong. I think it's more likely that items get superceded and discarded, than break and can't be repaired. Newer gear like the mk1 Katana is nearly 10 years old, and doesn't appear to have a reputation for being unreliable. Same with the Kemper, released in 2011.