Anyone here go against/disregard doctor’s advice/prescription ?

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Mike Eskimo, Feb 19, 2019.

  1. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Went to a new Dr for my primary to start to unravel and correct my failing back.

    My high-normal blood pressure is now considered High by new 2017 guidelines.

    He prescribed me lowest dose losartan.

    To tell you the truth, there was so much information going back-and-forth between him and I that I just said “oh yeah I’ll go on a blood pressure medicine” without even thinking about it.

    Two days later I’m talking to a friend of mine who is fairly athletic and I mentioned the prescription to him and he said “oh don’t go on that - you should at least try diet and exercise before hand. Why wasn’t that an option ?”

    It just rang true . And truthfully, yeah, he’s not a doctor but it was like he unlocked the part of my brain that wasn’t working that said - “wait a minute...”

    So now when I go back with the x-rays of my back that he requested, I’m wondering how he will react to me saying no, I want to try aggressive diet and exercise changes before I go on some pill with a number of side effects including kidney interaction .

    Anyone here consciously go against doctors orders, and if so what was their reaction?
     
  2. Bluego1

    Bluego1 Tele-Holic

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    These dudes.
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  3. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Oh damn absolutely!
    A doctor is one person and they do not always agree with another doctor.
    Going on a med as an alternative to taking care of yourself is a pretty shaky assumption on the part of the doctor, unless they tried to guide you toward better health for a year and you proved unwilling to make adjustments.
     
  4. blowtorch

    blowtorch Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Yeah I've done it, and found it wasn't very damn bright of me
     
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  5. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Telefied Ad Free Member

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    My wife is a doctor -- but not my doctor. Nevertheless, my doctor is a friend of hers and I know I'd never get away with it.
     
  6. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    I texted a close friend of ours who is a PA to get her opinion. Why I didn’t think of that two weeks ago I don’t know. See if my brain is already working that slow and had lower blood pressure I might be even more of an imbecile...
     
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  7. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I'd think that any medical professional would be hesitant to second-guess your doctor, because they don't have your test results and and don't know medical history, for starters.
     
  8. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    There are certain branches of medicine that will tell you to go on the meds their profession pushes, whether you need the meds or not.
    Acid reflux symptoms gets prescribed a daily life long scrip that cuts your digestive acids by 80%.
    Meaning that you digestive system then runs at 20% of normal digestive acids, which break down food.
    Those acids also kill diseases you might accidentally ingest.
    I went to one of these docs for a coughing issue that my primary care doc had pretty well figured out. Primary care doc said the throat doc will prescribe acid reflux meds, but primary care doc felt I didn't need them. She sent me just because that's the way you get scoped. Sure enough, acid reflux doc prescribed his med despite my not having acid reflux.

    Blood pressure/ blood thinner/ cholesterol meds as an alternative to changing up bad habits makes a lot of money for the industry.

    For those who are more gravely ill or truly unwilling to take care of themselves, those meds are legit AFAIK.

    Another area I would question is addiction treatment, which incidentally has a branch known as food addiction. For a food addict, it can be very hard and possibly impossible to simply eat better and exercise.
    But if you have more than a year to live and are willing and able to change up your habits, stopping the self harm has gotta be medically better than keeping up the self harm and taking a pill to survive it.

    I've known "recovering addicts" with more than a year off drugs, whose primary care docs pushed them to go on prescribed synthetic opiates "in case they feel like going back to the dope". This supports the patients sense that they are hopeless and shouldn't even bother to try taking care of themselves.

    There is a great deal of support for big pharma in the doctor community, to a point where even doctors warn patients about doctors over prescribing.

    Watch TV and see the alternating ads for the latest new med you really would be happier on, then for the lawyers to call after the meds you took make you gravely ill or even dead.

    I would not get medical advice on the internet, but "getting a second opinion" is just as well supported as taking whatever med your doc tells you to take without question.
    Seems we are in a medical crisis of over prescribing these days and it's not a conspiracy theory. Doctors agree.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2019
  9. D_W_PGH

    D_W_PGH Friend of Leo's

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    Only your opinion and the doctor's opinion count. I went on atenolol for complex migraines (off label, I guess) and it almost killed me. Literally.

    But I understand that the much newer drugs are better tolerated with fewer side effects, and blood pressure is well established (where as marginal need for statins has no data backing it up - you have to be over 65 to get any life expectancy increase from statins unless you're an oddball case or had a heart attack or stroke).

    At any rate, the effect of blood pressure is cumulative. If it were me, I'd fight on the statins based on actual mortality data and take the blood pressure medication. I no longer take anything for migraines. In every case, the medication has either done nothing for me or caused *severe* depression, going to a catastrophic level with atenolol before figuring out the cause.

    (not trying to create an argument on the statin issue - but just as I understand it, the data is clearer about blood pressure than statins, at least until you're older than 65 or in a compromised group).

    http://www.theactuary.com/features/2018/08/statin-prescription-figures-on-the-pulse/
     
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  10. JL_LI

    JL_LI Friend of Leo's

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    I agree with your doctor's advice. My doc prescribed Losartan years ago when my blood pressure was normal as a way to prevent diabetic kidney damage. There is a real and present danger though. I moved my Losartan prescription from CVS to Walgreens about two months ago, the reason being that the Losartan carried by CVS is manufactured by Chinese pharmaceutical company Zhejiang Huahai Pharmaceutical Co. Ltd. According to the FDA, Zhejiang Huahai lacks adequate quality control and another drug manufactured by that company has been found to be contaminated with a carcinogenic compound. I check all of my prescription drugs and hand back anything made in China. This is just a particularly egregious case. What's just as disturbing to me is that distributors and resellers of banned pharmaceuticals are allowed to continue to sell and distribute them until inventories are exhausted. I don't even want to ask what happened to pharmaceuticals made in the USA.

    https://www.webmd.com/heart/news/20180928/fda-bans-import-of-meds-from-chinese-firm
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2019
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  11. Toto'sDad

    Toto'sDad Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Before I give my professional medical advice as a poster on the Bad Dog, I'd at least like to know what your numbers are and how old you are. Some general info. Take your own blood pressure readings. Go buy a decent BP machine. Log the readings in a book, see what you're averaging through the day. If you are running anything over like 160 over 80 when you are exercising you will be going way above that. When you get to anything like 200 over 100, you are asking for a stroke. I'm pretty sure you don't want one of those, they instantly relic you. All bp meds are not equal. I'm on Losartin, and don't seem to have any problems of any kind using it. some medications have given me ankle swelling, soreness, and general feelings of restlessness.

    I seem to recall you're riding a bike a pretty good distance every day, if you're still doing that and not over 10 lbs above you ideal weight and still having high readings you probably need BP medication. I don't care how dedicated you are, physical regimens fail most of the time. That's about the extent of my diagnosis at this time.
     
  12. SixStringSlinger

    SixStringSlinger Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    It's good to be educated and to participate in your own care, including participating in discussions regarding the planning of your own care.

    It's good to ask questions whenever you do not understand, or you disagree.

    It's also good to listen to the experts in the relevant field, including multiple experts if you do not understand/disagree/have some other concern.

    It's bad to go against a doctor's advice just because you do not understand/disagree. Ask why your doc came to the conclusion(s) he/she did. Get multiple opinions from experts.
     
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  13. jimd

    jimd Friend of Leo's

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    You have every right to question your doctor's advice and ask about other treatments. It's your body. This of course could go too far. I'm sure doctor's get tired of internet self diagnosis, anti-vaxers and other conspiracies etc. But, it sounds perfectly reasonable to me to ask about diet and exercise before going the pharmaceutical route. If the two of you can't come to an agreement, you should seek a second opinion.
     
  14. Big_Bend

    Big_Bend Poster Extraordinaire

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    My doctor has recommended that I take a daily baby aspirin and a perscription Vitamin D.

    I take the aspirin, but I do not take the Vitamin D. I'd rather get my vitamins the natural way.
     
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  15. telemnemonics

    telemnemonics Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    So, this comment could mean many things!
    For the sake of clarity, are you saying:

    My wife knows my doc never makes mistakes and has the last word.
    My wife would kick my butt if i questioned a medical professional.
    My wife doesn't believe in getting a second opinion.
    In Canada the medical profession tends to under prescribe rather than over prescribe.

    I'd agree that a medical professional would be remiss to give medical advice to a friend without knowing their medical situation. But might @Mike Eskimo still consider having another medical professional take a look at his medical info and offer advice?

    I recently had my docs office print out pertinent medical records for me to carry out, no fuss and it's our right to get copies of what the docs document on us.
     
  16. Toto'sDad

    Toto'sDad Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I got the same advice, I take a baby aspirin every morning along with my BP meds. I also take a variety of vitamins. One of which is a fairly strong dose. (4000 units of unicorn horn or something like that) Even though I'm outdoors a lot, I was still low on vitamin D. After six months or so my levels are where they should be and I feel better now than before I started taking the D.
     
  17. D_W_PGH

    D_W_PGH Friend of Leo's

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    I'm sure that doctors generally see non-compliant patients for not good reasons 50 times more often than they see non-compliance for good reasons.

    That would lead BDLH to get lumped into that group by his doc, which would result in a hipaa violation if his wife was told in the US, but you have to decide what's more important - giving up half of your assets/being in the long term dog house some other way, or being obnoxious and working the "you violated my hipaa rights!!!" thing.

    Either way, I don't think many doctors have much tolerance for bro science, even though they will listen to it because patience bring it in droves.

    I used statins as an example because the study information that I could find (doc wanted to put me on statins for having marginally high cholesterol) never seem to have complete conclusions with full long-term datasets. Doc will listen if I bring him actual data (and the all-cause mortality study that I saw above is what I was looking for - what are the chances that the statins would actually make me live longer or prevent death or maiming.).

    If there is good data, you can usually find it. I haven't looked for HBP, but have heard more than one P-doc say that it's more or less a settled issue. the "statins for everyone no matter what" crowd seemed to be cardiologists. And the studies that I read for that advocated improvements for certain things and seemed to be lacking detail about the remaining "things" not commented on. I shouldn't be able to see something like that as a lay person.

    (they did accelerate onset of diabetes by 3 years and separate studies suggested that doctors underreport muscle and other side effects, as do patients).

    I expect to go on blood pressure medication as I get older (doesn't it generally go up as you age?). I can fast right now and see a drop in it temporarily, but that doesn't sound like a good long term strategy.
     
  18. Lawdawg

    Lawdawg Tele-Holic

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    Before you spend time getting second opinions why don't you just ask your doctor why he wants to prescribe BP medication vs. just diet and exercise. Sometimes just getting a more detailed explanation from your physician can answer a lot of questions. Of course, you can and should get a second opinion if that makes you more comfortable with the diagnosis so long as you aren't just shopping for the opinion you want to hear.

    Personally, I wouldn't screw around with a Dr.'s recommendation to take BP medication but that's just me.

    Good luck and good health to you!
     
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  19. BigDaddyLH

    BigDaddyLH Telefied Ad Free Member

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    No, she knows humans are fallible.

    Close. It's not the questioning itself but questioning from a position of ignorance, in my case :oops:

    Not at all.

    I can't say, but if I'd have to guess, I'd say, because of lawsuits, there is more CYA prescribing in the US.


    I agree! A second opinion is never a bad idea. These days, EMR (electronic medical records) can be forwarded with a push of a button.

    To fill in my short answers, here's a recent story.

    My wife's mother had a minor-ish medical issue and her doctor gave her a prescription. Of course, the first thing she did was ask her daughter (my wife). My wife disagreed with the choice of medication, looked it up to back up her feeling, asked her brother (who is also a doctor) who agreed with her, then finally asked a colleague who once again agreed. Her colleague volunteered to see her mother and write the correct prescription if she still felt that way after the visit. And so it went.

    But now, her mother is feeling guilty about second-guessing her own doctor and my wife is feeling a bit guilty, too, since this is a small town and she knows the doctor. And yet that's what happened.
     
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  20. geobookman

    geobookman TDPRI Member

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    I’ve gone against it before— got rid of a lifetime of allergies with acupuncture and so forth. Just because someone is a doctor doesn’t mean they aren’t influenced my pharmacuedical industry. It’s good to try to solve problems without reliance on medicine if possible, if you have something you can naturally reverse. My good friend with MS must rely on medicine, and that’s okay too.
     
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