Anyone ever build 10W PP Class A amps?

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Liriodendron

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I've done two of them so far, one a combo, one a head. They've been a bit of work in progress. I think the combo I'm going to rework into a head at some point, I don't like the sound of the cab. Aspect ratio isn't right. But the amps have been great.

The first one I built with with EL84s, but I actually started the design out with EL844s to get a bit lower power/volume. Turned out I didn't like those tubes, so I stuck with EL84s. As it sits, it probably only puts out 7-8W (I could boost the voltage a tad bit and still keep it in Class A) but it can go full tilt without fizzling out, so I'm pretty happy. I've since adjusted the design so I could push it to the max 10W, and perhaps if I build another, I will do that.

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I don't know if I'll post the schematic just yet, but it's only 3 knobs, Volume, Treble and Bass. It's somewhat similar to an AC30 but with no cathode follower. And I've biased the PI to be a bit warmer. To me it sounds kind of in between a Marshall and a Vox, which I like! Lots of chime, but not too bright and not too much mids. And not too fizzy like an AC30 PI can sound.

I used the OT off a Gibson GA-5 crest, which is a 10W PP, 10K primary. It's a MM and it's pretty small, but holds together nicely. It's also quite inexpensive (I paid $60 for it). The PT is custom, but it's a tad on the low side. Again, I may modify or rework. I think there's an Edcor that might be right for this amp.

As you can see, I used a choke. That forms a Pi filter between the plate and screens, and ideally it's to keep the screen voltage up high, almost at the plate voltage, but highly regulated. The bonus is it gives the amp some nice dynamics.


The other one I built with 6V6s and used more of a Plexi type preamp. I've been fine tuning it and it's pretty good. It doesn't have NFB now and I might add that in and switch the "cut" control to a "presence". As of now the preamp can overpower the power amp a bit, so cutting a bit of gain and/or bass will be in order.

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As you might recognize, the cab and chassis are an old Judybox. I sold the transformers and used a rather unique combo here. The PT is an Edcor, and the OT is a MM for a Supro meant to run 6L6s in Class A at 30W, 5K primary, 4ohm secondary. I run 6V6s at 10K with 8ohm on the secondary. It was also a cheap wind, only around $60 as well although significantly bigger than the Gibson. I can't say which sounds better or different as both the amps are so different, but both work well for this type of power amp. I'm tempted to snub my nose at the Gibson because it's so small, but so far I can't detect any real weakness. I think they're both very simple, probably primary/secondary/primary winds and hence the low cost.


The class A power amps do sound a bit different though. They sound "cleaner" than a typical AB power amp. I'd assume that's because there's no crossover distortion, but perhaps also it might be due to their harmonic content. I purposely inbalanced the phase inverters on both to give them more 2nd harmonic distortion. But still some may perfer the actual tone of an AB power amp over this. I actually prefer it. It doesn't sound anything like a SE class A amp. It has none of the rattiness, thinness or harshness that sometimes can happen with SE amps. And of course PP, even without NFB is much more damped than SE, so they are quite tight given the right bass response. They overdrive very, very easily and the volume is only a touch more than a typical 5W SE amp with 6V6 or EL84.

Cost is fairly comparable as the OTs are cheaper - you could also use a cheap 5E3 OT at 8K, it would still likely be "almost" pure class A if the bias and voltages are right. The choke and extra tube adds a bit more cost and of course the PT has to be able to supply a lot more current. These run around 120mA (they are NOT efficient) and of course, you need low voltages. One could easily add a VVR mosfet and associated circuitry and have it adjustable between true Class A and a hot AB. I don't notice a huge difference in tone even when I bias them a bit cold, but both these I have them running a lot of current!

Overall I've been quite pleased with them. I'm not sure they're something that many people would buy, given cost and lack of headroom, but for someone looking for great overdriven tone at near SE volume, these are the ticket!
 
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jonrpick

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A low-watt (under 15W), Class A, P-P amp with no NFB seems like a good idea for a future build for myself...
 

richa

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It's odd that you should post this just now. I'm trying to decide what to do with an assortment of existing bits and bobs and had just about decided that it was time I dig into a class A SE thing. I've never been a huge fan of these (prefer push pull sound from what little ability to make real comparisons I have which isn't enough to judge fairly). Anyhow I'm concluding there is more goodness happening there than I thought and it got me wondering if there might be something interesting in a class A push pull. It's one of the interesting fallouts of the drive toward low power tone machines I think. I'm probably going to stick with the SE version for this go around because there are fewer moving pieces and I'm realizing I really need to deep dive into pentode behavior and my brain hurts enough already. I started down this road a few years ago when I was reading the valvewizard small signal pentode stuff but had to shelve everything for a few years. Just recently started pulling on this thread again.
 

SerpentRuss

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Don't most P-P amps spend a large part of their output range in Class A anyway? If you don't mind me asking, what voltages, load, and bias are you using with your EL84 tubes to insure they swing completely in Class A operation?
 
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Liriodendron

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Don't most P-P amps spend a large part of their output range in Class A anyway? If you don't mind me asking, what voltages, load, and bias are you using with your EL84 tubes to insure they swing completely in Class A operation?

That's pretty easy...

Data sheets usually give you a good reference but typically <250V a-k, 10k a-a load, and bias of 100% plate dissipation, 12W for EL84, 14W for 6V6. I used a 10H, 200R or so choke to keep the screens and preamp voltages high, and regulated. One could also do choke before plate and then keep the preamp voltages right up near the power amp plate voltage with no noise impact. I think my preamps are around 220V, but honestly, no detriment in tone in my opinion, just less headroom. A good ouput transformer keeps everything very bright.

This kind of operation is very inefficeint, and hence why it's not used much except in Hi-Fi where you are trying to minimize distortion as much as possible i.e. no crossover distortion, minimal 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion. And this is true when you are running clean, but the point of these type of amps is to have a power amp that overdrives really, really easily and has a more manageble volume, but still retain (most of) the tone of a PP amp. When I play them side by side against a 5W amp it's pretty revealing - the PP amp have a ton more low end punch and girth. The overall volume is a bit more, but not much. You'd notice it if you played side by side.

If I want to play an amp with lots of headroom and clean tone, I'd probably opt for pushing the same tubes to 15 or 20W, but the increase in volume is not negligable over a 5W amp. At that point you start to get into hurting ears and rattling windows.
 
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