Anyone else "amping hot"?

[sammy1974]

Most amps at full throttle make for a fantastic tone in my modeler as well.
I effectively take the guitar volume down "permanently" by placing a booster (ironically) set @1 between guitar and amp, then crank the amp.
It's a beautiful thing.
Pretty sure amp noise would be an issue IRL, but I'm hoping someone here will try it & see what their results are.

guitar -> booster or compressor as an attenuator -> dimed amp

 

[BlueGillGreg]

I've been playing Rock on a Tele and on a Fake Strat with the guitar pot at what I think of as 25% (who knows what it is, really?). I like having enough reserve to dial up into the overdrive, distortion, or feedback zones on sustained tones. In fact I set the levels by playing feedback, then turn down the guitar to clean.

I've replaced the smallish black plastic knobs on the Fake Strat ('89 or '90 Yamaha RGZ 312 24 fret HSS with a Floyd) with bigger, black anodized, knurled alloy knobs. Before put on these great knobs, I didn't ride the volume on this guitar like I do now. For me having great finger contact and instant accurate movement has prompted me to add this into my playing. Whatever pots Yamaha used are 30 whatever years old, and have always felt and sounded great. I think good pots with beefy metal knobs work well for volume riding. My P-90 Goldtop Lesser Paul (Agile 2000) sounds very good, but its small, tapered plastic knobs (and possibly its pots) don't invite knob twirling like the Strat and Tele. It must be time to put some numbered Gibson speed knobs on the Goldtop and find out if it's just the knobs, or if the pots are mechanically substandard as well.

Thanks for making me think!

 

[String Tree]

I don't know the term for this so pardon my arbitrary description. I hear a lot of people complain about a variety of amps not sounding good unless they are played at high volume and often end up too loud for practical situations, whether at home or on a gig. Something I started doing in the last year or so that has gotten me around this is turning my amps up (Tweed Champ clone with a 12" ceramic speaker and more recently, a Henriksen Bud 6)...either all the way or much higher than is practical and then rolling my volume off on the guitar until I find the sweet spot. In most situations, I find this works better than trying to dial in the sweet spot with the guitar volume (and tone) wide open. Now, admittedly, I use my volume and tone knobs probably more than the average cat, especially since I play jazz most of the time, but this has worked really well for me.

I feel like what we're after when turning up an amp is more natural compression and harmonics, which are sometimes hard to get lower on the volume dial (on the amp). I don't know if this would work with every amp, b/c the Champ is a fairly compressed sounding amp anyway (to my ears) and the Bud has the Input Gain knob, which adds more amp compression as you turn it up.

Discuss, brothers.

Been doing that for Years.
To my ears, it works.

 

[zencat]

I don't know the term for this so pardon my arbitrary description. I hear a lot of people complain about a variety of amps not sounding good unless they are played at high volume and often end up too loud for practical situations, whether at home or on a gig. Something I started doing in the last year or so that has gotten me around this is turning my amps up (Tweed Champ clone with a 12" ceramic speaker and more recently, a Henriksen Bud 6)...either all the way or much higher than is practical and then rolling my volume off on the guitar until I find the sweet spot. In most situations, I find this works better than trying to dial in the sweet spot with the guitar volume (and tone) wide open. Now, admittedly, I use my volume and tone knobs probably more than the average cat, especially since I play jazz most of the time, but this has worked really well for me.

I feel like what we're after when turning up an amp is more natural compression and harmonics, which are sometimes hard to get lower on the volume dial (on the amp). I don't know if this would work with every amp, b/c the Champ is a fairly compressed sounding amp anyway (to my ears) and the Bud has the Input Gain knob, which adds more amp compression as you turn it up.

Discuss, brothers.

I have my amp(s) volume at the "sweet" tonal spot and use a volume pedal as needed.

 

[december]

I was using a Carl's Custom Guitars attenuator. Works well. Starts to cut the high end a little at more than 50% attenuation.
Then I got a BBE Maxcom for the FX loop. 2 channel sonic maximizer/comp/gate, last in the stereo FX loop chain. Each channel has an output level so I use that to attenuate and match the levels of the two amps.

 

[old wrench]

That is a classic set-up for playing smaller venues with a lower-powered amp like a Deluxe Reverb

Set your amps volume at 8 or 9 and control your volume at the guitar - and just turn it up for your leads

Everyone starts out with a plan and good intentions -

But, towards the end of the night when everybody is really cooking and things have gotten loud, you also have your guitar's volume pretty much dimed !!!

.

 

[JustABluesGuy]

Added bonus: You always have extra volume and/or gain on tap!

Exactly! I have more options than I had when I dimed the guitar.

 

[JustABluesGuy]

True...if breakup is what you're after, you need a smaller amp or a different approach. But if you play mostly clean like me, I would guess it can work even with a big amp. Maybe a big amp owner could chime in...

It does help a lot to match your amp power to the room you need to fill as much as possible.

That’s one reason why I have multiple amps.

 

[Stratocast]

I don't know the term for this so pardon my arbitrary description. I hear a lot of people complain about a variety of amps not sounding good unless they are played at high volume and often end up too loud for practical situations, whether at home or on a gig. Something I started doing in the last year or so that has gotten me around this is turning my amps up (Tweed Champ clone with a 12" ceramic speaker and more recently, a Henriksen Bud 6)...either all the way or much higher than is practical and then rolling my volume off on the guitar until I find the sweet spot. In most situations, I find this works better than trying to dial in the sweet spot with the guitar volume (and tone) wide open. Now, admittedly, I use my volume and tone knobs probably more than the average cat, especially since I play jazz most of the time, but this has worked really well for me.

I feel like what we're after when turning up an amp is more natural compression and harmonics, which are sometimes hard to get lower on the volume dial (on the amp). I don't know if this would work with every amp, b/c the Champ is a fairly compressed sounding amp anyway (to my ears) and the Bud has the Input Gain knob, which adds more amp compression as you turn it up.

Discuss, brothers.

I have played in a lot of venues over the past 40 years or so... I started with a Fender Vibrolux Reverb amp but traded it off for a Peavey back around 1981.. cuz I just could Not get the distortion out of the Fender I wanted...the Fender.. was.. a great amp for Beach Boys.. or Surf Tunes.. or even some Beatle Songs... but not for things like Metallica.. Zepelin.. or even the Who...both amps were tube amps... but even playing outside in open fields.. carnivals.. b.b.q.'s.. etc... I rarely had to turn my amp up past 5.....I do not know how loud the people you are playing with are...but keep this in mind... at age 67 ...I still have all of my hearing without using a hearing aid...the choice is yours... all I am saying is that I have played large places and still NEVER EVER had to crank my amp any of them up much past 5 tops..

in fact in some places we were told to turn down a bit.. cuz folks could not hear their own conversations at tables..

 

[Stratocast]

Old band mate used the volume up method. He had great tone but would forget to turn down after leads. He still used a ocd also.

that is a fairly common problem I think... I have ran into that in 2 different bands I was in.... one band the guy said "oops ,sorry".. the other band the guy said. ."so what?".. in fact the drummer got so sick of the other guitarist being so loud after the leads.. he said I don't know why I even bother playing the drums since no one can hear me after the lead anyway. .and he quit the band.. that is how loud that guitarist got... .I think its kind of a "king of the mountain".. mentality..

 

[Stratocast]

I have played in a lot of venues over the past 40 years or so... I started with a Fender Vibrolux Reverb amp but traded it off for a Peavey back around 1981.. cuz I just could Not get the distortion out of the Fender I wanted...the Fender.. was.. a great amp for Beach Boys.. or Surf Tunes.. or even some Beatle Songs... but not for things like Metallica.. Zepelin.. or even the Who...both amps were tube amps... but even playing outside in open fields.. carnivals.. b.b.q.'s.. etc... I rarely had to turn my amp up past 5.....I do not know how loud the people you are playing with are...but keep this in mind... at age 67 ...I still have all of my hearing without using a hearing aid...the choice is yours... all I am saying is that I have played large places and still NEVER EVER had to crank my amp any of them up much past 5 tops..

in fact in some places we were told to turn down a bit.. cuz folks could not hear their own conversations at tables..

I don't know the term for this so pardon my arbitrary description. I hear a lot of people complain about a variety of amps not sounding good unless they are played at high volume and often end up too loud for practical situations, whether at home or on a gig. Something I started doing in the last year or so that has gotten me around this is turning my amps up (Tweed Champ clone with a 12" ceramic speaker and more recently, a Henriksen Bud 6)...either all the way or much higher than is practical and then rolling my volume off on the guitar until I find the sweet spot. In most situations, I find this works better than trying to dial in the sweet spot with the guitar volume (and tone) wide open. Now, admittedly, I use my volume and tone knobs probably more than the average cat, especially since I play jazz most of the time, but this has worked really well for me.

I feel like what we're after when turning up an amp is more natural compression and harmonics, which are sometimes hard to get lower on the volume dial (on the amp). I don't know if this would work with every amp, b/c the Champ is a fairly compressed sounding amp anyway (to my ears) and the Bud has the Input Gain knob, which adds more amp compression as you turn it up.

Discuss, brothers.

when I am at home now trying to learn new music... I do Not even turn an amp on... I have a Fender Strat that I play.. I put. one ear bud up to one ear. .from the computer speaker.. so I can hear the sound coming from the computer.. and keep the other ear open so I can hear what I am playing.... and that works just as well for me..

I do not need to have music blasting to learn a song... I can turn it up at the gig..

 

[tele_jas]

Not a fan of Blackface amps, or even tweed amps, at lower volumes. Most of the time, anything above 2 is too much for some venues. At two (or 1, at some clubs), the amp sounds and feels lifeless. Putting a boost pedal in front of the amp, to push the preamp harder, usually helps some.

Jump to an AC30, or similar EL84 style amp, and it's a little better and they seem to have more compression going on already... but, still, even at lower volumes they feel stiff.

**In some of the Fender and Vox amps, you also have that bright cap you need to worry about, that makes it sound bad at lower volumes IMO.

In most of these cases, playing a direct option (Helix, BOSS GX-100, Headrush, ect...) is just as good.

But, anytime I can turn my amp(s) up to a decent level, is a good time! I'm not talking "ear splitting" levels, but enough to feel it.

 

[mexicanyella]

Most amps at full throttle make for a fantastic tone in my modeler as well.
I effectively take the guitar volume down "permanently" by placing a booster (ironically) set @1 between guitar and amp, then crank the amp.
It's a beautiful thing.
Pretty sure amp noise would be an issue IRL, but I'm hoping someone here will try it & see what their results are.

guitar -> booster or compressor as an attenuator -> dimed amp

I have never tried doing all of that within a “virtual signal path,” but Thanks for the idea! I’m going to explore that tonight in my Zoom.

 

[Intubator]

Murder rate up, but domestic assault is down. Crabs went up, but Old Bay is still cheap. Go Orioles. Ha, ha...

Oh boy... I finally have some hope with the new city's state prosecutor.. I'll keep it at dat, Hon..

 

[fretknot]

I do the same thing. Amp at breakup level, guitar volume rolled off 15-20% and the tone rolled off about 20-25%, adjust as needed. No pedals.

 

[TwoBear]

AKA Old-School
It forces you to keep your pots clean though

I picked that up from an old guy 30+ years ago on a pick up gig I did with the Drifters of the Coasters, One of those great 50s doo-wop groups I got a lot of early work from around Los Angeles, Long Beach San Pedro all the way up to San Bernadino, more I think about it all the way up to Sacramento…man those guys were playing everywhere..

One of my first gigs (with them ) and they brought their own guy (the singers and one guitar player) and we were both playing super reverbs.

He had an old BF with an equally old SB Strat, I remember I was playing my 52 Les Paul. I had BF and SF amps, and it was probably my 68SF that night.

I noticed right away his sound was way better than mine. I would usually use boxes in front to goose the clean amps-DOD250, MXR micro amp, LPB-1, Or a fuzz or dirt box of the era, always with my old chrome top vox, and usually analog delay like red Ibanez, or Tape EP3?

When I ran thru the FX it definitely sounded good, But for just a meat and potatoes great sound, that guy through manipulation of his volume & tone/pu selector w/amp volume way up, sounded better.

I remember him, saying, he maxed it out quite often, backing it down a little for clubs. He said he came about it being burned by sound people. He said if they see you going back there turning your amp up, they’ll tell you to turn it down… If you crank that sucker from the git-go-then back it off, during sound check when they ask you turn it up all the way, you just tell a little white lie!

I think this may work better with tube amps than solid state, but I’m also remembering some great tones from SS Vox heads w/cool throbbing trem, great Jazz tones from Polytones-That actually sounded worse with a speaker upgrade like a JBL…

So thankful I learned that from him. Oftentimes it’s just something so simple.
Recently, I was quite unhappy trying to get a Jazz tone out of my recording stuff, which is usually a pod go into my home stuff. Took me a while to notice that sometime back for whatever reason I had changed to large gauge ground or ground wound strings on the guitar that I used for that stuff. As soon as I restrung it with flat wounds, I found what I wanted was right there.

 

[TwoBear]

No it doesn’t - since it really depends on the gain structure of each amp, as well as other factors such as speaker choice, and whether or not you’re using vintage output single coils or hot humbucker pickups, etc…

That said, similarly designed amps can elicit similar results, such as “tweed” or “plexi” circuits, which tend to break up in a more predictable fashion.

Otherwise, a fairly low gain amp cranked all the way up can sound ratty and harsh, whereas a super high gain amp can become a mushy mess with its volume set only half way.

An amp’s preamp and tone stack often determines the overall gain structure, as well as negative feedback settings. Anyway, a “one size fits all” approach doesn’t always work, even playing through amps of similar types. Certain amps may even sound better at lower volumes.

For instance, if I were going for super clean tones at a moderate sized gig, I might consider using a Fender Twin with its volume set to “2”.

So, needless to say, one has to use their ears to determine “sweet spot” rather than knob settings…


.

If I played a Fender, Twin Reverb on 2 I wouldn’t need the talcum powder!

 

[TwoBear]

I've been playing Rock on a Tele and on a Fake Strat with the guitar pot at what I think of as 25% (who knows what it is, really?). I like having enough reserve to dial up into the overdrive, distortion, or feedback zones on sustained tones. In fact I set the levels by playing feedback, then turn down the guitar to clean.

I've replaced the smallish black plastic knobs on the Fake Strat ('89 or '90 Yamaha RGZ 312 24 fret HSS with a Floyd) with bigger, black anodized, knurled alloy knobs. Before put on these great knobs, I didn't ride the volume on this guitar like I do now. For me having great finger contact and instant accurate movement has prompted me to add this into my playing. Whatever pots Yamaha used are 30 whatever years old, and have always felt and sounded great. I think good pots with beefy metal knobs work well for volume riding. My P-90 Goldtop Lesser Paul (Agile 2000) sounds very good, but its small, tapered plastic knobs (and possibly its pots) don't invite knob twirling like the Strat and Tele. It must be time to put some numbered Gibson speed knobs on the Goldtop and find out if it's just the knobs, or if the pots are mechanically substandard as well.

Thanks for making me think!

You are on a great track! I already posted here (probably a little too lengthy) about what you’re speaking of, but I also have a push push volume taken from an old Yamaha that is still working great with regular upkeep, after many years working.

As to the Gibson style set up 2V 2T, If you’re not hip to it, there’s a few ways to wire the pots, vintage, modern, & more. They may be described as one more friendly for people that twiddle knobs, and The other more for wide-open players? Forgive me, if I’m telling you something you already know.

I would shoot myself right out of James Bond’s car-I’m a knob twiddler (TMI for many) & a button pusher.

 

[BluesMann]

After years of running my non master volume tube amps at slightly less than half volume and dialing up guitar volume, I started playing in a group with a sax - tenor sax to be exact. we some times play dual solo lines. But he was drowning me out. Tenor sax miked through PA is LOUD. So I started putting the amp volumes up to about 8-9 then controlling volume at guitar.
Huge difference. I can now get my guitar equal to his sax in volume. And depending on tone settings, We can make it sound like a sax duet. It’s pretty cool. Never going back to the old way.

 

[Silverface]

Something I started doing in the last year or so that has gotten me around this is turning my amps up (Tweed Champ clone with a 12" ceramic speaker and more recently, a Henriksen Bud 6)...either all the way or much higher than is practical and then rolling my volume off on the guitar until I find the sweet spot.

Virtually all the sought-out local guys and many pros that play a variety of venues...but mostly clubs...use this exact system, which I used from the 70's until I had to stop gigging due to medical issues.

The best approach I've found is owning several tube amps from 6 to 25 (roughly) watts, and using the lowest-output one on each gig that you can run just below the top of headroom with the guitar controls rolled off around 20%. That way you have a little control room for clean solos, and a little more for mild saturation.

Works great for jazz, classic rock, country rock, country and just about anything other than hardcore and metal. No pedals required unless you want to color the sound.

And it helps having a great amp tech to work with who can help optimize your sound.