Any players you like that play off time sometimes or aren't tight?

Discussion in 'Bad Dog Cafe' started by Marquee Moon, Sep 21, 2019.

  1. magic smoke

    magic smoke Tele-Meister

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    Have you tried drumming yet? IMO it should be THE entry class for musicians. Every instrument can be used as a percussion instrument... especially telecasters! Learning traps can even help your dancing.
     
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  2. Teleguy61

    Teleguy61 Friend of Leo's

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    There's confusion here about being "loose" rhythmically, and losing the pulse.
    You can play around the beat, push it, drag it, but that regular pulse has to be constant or it won't make sense.
     
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  3. Scooter91

    Scooter91 Tele-Holic

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    I remember a reviewer talking about Paul Westerberg's "gloriously scattershot guitar playing" :)
     
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  4. codamedia

    codamedia Friend of Leo's

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    These are the two responses I agree with most in this thread.

    Examples:
    Richards plays behind the beat.... Setzer plays ahead of it... Albert Lee, both at the same time :p
    BUT ALL THREE ARE STILL TIGHT within the song... even Willy ;)
     
  5. johnDH

    johnDH Tele-Meister

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    yep! clearly its between Keef and Neil Y
     
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  6. ballynally2

    ballynally2 Tele-Holic

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    super tight! Strat i think!?
    Pete is one of the best rhythm players in rock music.
    And remember, he was playing with Keith Moon.That interaction was magic but maybe not that steady.In isolation one might make some points about timing but in the mix it's spot on..

    In general i like it more when a guitar player plays his notes on or slightly behind the beat.In solos it's fine either way as it doesnt interfere with the overall rhythm.
    I don't like it if someone plays rhythm guitar in front of the beat, trying to speed up the drums.Happens a lot.As a bassplayer i experienced this quite a few times.
    You can't change a drummer's feel of rhythm no matter how much you want to. As a guitar player i try to mix w the drummer.I might set the tempo but when he takes off he commands.im on or slightly behind the beat.Relax.
    A good bass player is actually essential for a band's timing, often overlooked.
    Bad bass player, bad band.
    A great band is both tight and loose.You know it instantly.It can even be loud but tight.
    A real joy to play with great musicians and they're usually the easiest to get along with..
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2019
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  7. smartsoul72

    smartsoul72 Tele-Meister

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    Syd Barrett?
     
  8. Alamo

    Alamo Doctor of Teleocity

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    2:30 in if you want to skip the first talking ;)

     
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  9. CK Dexter Haven

    CK Dexter Haven Friend of Leo's

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    Miles...

    Actually most bop players have time as a “ variable “ concept, Miles is a interesting study because he often played in a less frenetic style than his contemporaries, and actively sought out “ loose” drummers especially late in his career when he felt many younger players had become stiff and busy.

    Keep in mind that Keith and Charlie work together, and that Charlie comes from a jazz background, and is especially fond of the early bop players.

    Something else to keep in mind is that music educators have greatly expanded the ensemble use of “ The Met” aka “The Beat” since the development of the Dr. Beat in the ‘80s. As a older colleague once stated “ some of these young guys would put a click on a Bach choral “ Depending on background your band mates may experience “ time” differently..
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2019
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  10. Mike Eskimo

    Mike Eskimo Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Tap your foot when you play

    Play along with songs you really like that have a very defined meter/groove

    Have confidence in your time-keeping (unless you do suck...in which case - improve)

    On the beat?/Behind the beat ?/Ahead of the beat ?



    vvvvvvv TRY and play along with this ! :lol::lol::lol:

    Bill the drummer is f***ing with them - and they hang with it ! He goes back-and-forth continuously. Definitely something this band could not accomplish when they had two drummers.

     
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  11. black_doug

    black_doug Tele-Afflicted

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    Here's another example of Monk with Miles. Go to 4:50 to hear Monk playing with time. Wait for when Miles comes back in and Monk is right on the beat again.

     
  12. dickey

    dickey Tele-Afflicted

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    No offense, but never understood the love for "Keef". I realize he & the Stones are a musical legend,& I can respect him for that, but as a guitar player I think he is a totally overrated hack, & can't even take him seriously. Not even in the same league as guys like Danny Gatton, Tommy Emmanuel,etc.
     
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  13. Mad Kiwi

    Mad Kiwi Friend of Leo's

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    Technically these guys are better BUT, they didn't come first and help create the genre. Neither did they make as great and popular songs. Its easy from a revisionist/hindsite perspective but you aren't giving the credit to the concept of creating tunes, Rhythms, melodies and sounds that hadn't come before....

    Neither Danny Gatton or Tommy Emmanual between them have a back catalogue anywhere near what Keith has.
     
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  14. LunarSlingShot

    LunarSlingShot Tele-Holic

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    Thank you for this, kind of humanizes the legend. Huge fan of Townshend.
     
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  15. guitartwonk

    guitartwonk Tele-Meister

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    John Lee Hooker - changed the structure and timing of the tune on the fly.
    Neil Young - gets lost in the moment, but he'll catch up soon enough, and it will sound deliberate.
    Jimi Hendrix - same as Neil Young, plus he took a lot of risks and not all of them came off.
    Jimmy Page - whole passages of pure genius interspersed with occasional moments of cringe-worthy sloppiness.

    And then there is Brian May - we should call him out because I don't think I've ever heard him play so much as a bum note in his whole career. The earliest Queen stuff was pretty raw (listen to Queen At The Beeb!), but even then his playing was exemplary. The guy's a machine, but he still plays with feeling. That's extremely rare.
     
  16. Owenmoney

    Owenmoney Tele-Afflicted

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    I think feel is more important than time. I love music that breathes. The time can be off but the feel drives it along. Call it sloppy, or whatever but being slightly of the beat just makes it swing and feel alive. That’s why I love Keef and the Stones, Neil, etc are so cool. When a band is loose but tight and can change with the moment, magic happens. I hate music that’s rigid and precise. I ran machinery for a living, the precision drives me nuts, I want loose sloppy real life. Our heartbeats change based on activity levels and I like music that reacts the same kind of way. Slow it down, speed it up, has an ebb and flow that just feels like real life. Nothing has to be metronomic. How damn boring is that.


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  17. Greggorios

    Greggorios Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    "No offense..." Well of course not. Can't imagine how anyone could be offended by being referred to as a "totally overrated hack".:confused:
     
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  18. Endless Mike

    Endless Mike Friend of Leo's

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    ahiddentableau put it well.

    Playing ahead of and behind the beat are part of what gives certain types of music its "feel", but playing out of time is another thing all together. There's a huge gap between Willie Nelson, Miles Davis, etc and say, Steven Seagal.
     
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  19. dickey

    dickey Tele-Afflicted

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    That IS true, but Keef has never made me sit up & go "WHOA!!"
    I guess I am just not impressed with most rock guitar playing; only 2 rockers that ever made me take notice were EVH & Gary Moore. I like a total package player. Gatton & Emmanuel are "total package" players. They're the guys that make me wanna first burn my guitar, then wish I had another life so I could practice more. There is nothing either of them couldn't do, and do it 100X better than the top players in those respective genres (Except for maybe Segovia)
     
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  20. Digital Larry

    Digital Larry Tele-Afflicted

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    Guy I've played with a lot once said... "you ever use a METRONOME"? Now it's a 10 year running joke. And the answer is... not usually.
     
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