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Any one have experience with Jensen P10PF's?

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by Haloskater24, Jan 1, 2020.

  1. Haloskater24

    Haloskater24 Tele-Meister

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    Hello, im currently starting a build on my first tweed amp (2x10 5E6A Bassman) and i have these Jensen P10PF's that im thinking about getting Re coned and dropping in the bassman. Anyone here ever had experience with these? The magnets on these things are HUGE, also whats the best place to get vintage Jensens Re coned?
    [​IMG]
     
  2. boredguy6060

    boredguy6060 Poster Extraordinaire

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    Weber is the best place, also have them break them in for you.
    Good luck
     
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  3. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    I don’t know the ‘PF’ designation. The P there is a handling capacity designation that is greater than a Q and less than an N. The F is a question mark for me. That speaker was maybe an 18 watt speaker when new.
    I have used a P12P that was reconed by Weber in a 5E3. It was a great speaker for that amp. what you are proposing to build is very much like the 5E7 Bandmaster.....my favorite tweed amp. One difference is that the 5E6A Bassman’s global feedback loop has more cancellation than does the Bandmaster. The Bandmaster has the sweetest, sing8ng sustain of any tweed amp which I have owned, played on, or worked on. If I were building that Bassman, I would have an adjustable pot in series with that 20k resistor. I also note a difference in the coupling caps following the PI....the Bassman uses smaller values there, which would help control the low end response IF one were playing bass. With those speakers and for guitar, I would not fear using the .1mfds from the Bandmaster.
     
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  4. milocj

    milocj Friend of Leo's

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    I think that the "F" designation may mean full-range. They always have that orange fabric type surround like a lot of the later car and home stereo speakers had. I've used C10PFs in the past and really liked them as is. They seem to sound pretty much the same as the C10P IME.
     
  5. uriah1

    uriah1 Telefied Gold Supporter

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  6. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    During a recone, Weber will be ale to go back to the P10P thing...no F. That speaker is likely to be from 1953....could be 1963. One could have the choice of using a smooth cone or a ribbed cone....Weber will have good advice there.
     
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  7. ampking300

    ampking300 Tele-Meister

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    F=Flexair, both alnico and ceramic versions used in Jensen stereo/hi-fi cabs from about 1959 to 1964, about 20 watts max., these speakers are from 1963, sound good for stereo and electric bass, anything else, not so much. Most guitar players have them reconed with modern cones used for guitar, if done right these will sound great.
     
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  8. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

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    The voice coil used during the recone will be rated for a certain wattage, that'll in turn be the speaker's rating. Say if those have a 1.5" voice coil, Weber has different wattage ratings in that size, I think 50 watts it the top.
    I'd be using them in something!
     
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  9. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    The former material has a lot to do with the handling capacity. If one wanted them to be akin to vintage P10’s that Fender used, one would want paper formers. However that limits the handling capability compared t9 a modern former. 9nce again....Weber would be the f8nal source of info for me on specifics. using a 2 x 10 speaker arrangement for an old Bassman circuit like that, which might make what ????30-40 watts depending on variables, would benoush8ng those speakers. Looking at the old spec sheet for Jensen Alnicos, I am going to guess that a P10P was not quite 20 watt
    speaker. Only the 015N was listed at 20 watts. The P12N was listed at 18 watts. The P12P would be a couple of watts less than that?? I am going to think that the P10P would have been a 14-15 watt speaker.
    Two of those handling a Bassman that might make between 30+40 watts might be pushing it. Four P10R’s were not enough in the 5F6A....and the P10Q’s they went to in 1960 probably were taxed. Weber could hopefully make sure that you had enough speaker there to handle the amp when pushed......for some reasonable amount of time, anyway.
    2 x EVI/Force 10’s.....now, that would work for me.
     
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  10. Haloskater24

    Haloskater24 Tele-Meister

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    Doesn't Weber Demagnetize the speakers? Also i plan on putting some NOS tubes in, just bought a set of Canadian GE 5881's and a couple of Sylvania, CBS and GE pre amp tubes and a 5R4WGB rectifier tube, that thing is huge. Really hope this amp sounds great. Also would the cab size make a difference in sound? I wanna put it in one of these cabs [​IMG]
    Love the Wide panel Tweed Twin.
     
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  11. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    Yes, Weber remagnetizes the magnets. if you are going to use those 2 ten inch speakers, a Lo-po 5E8A Twin cab is quite a large package.....4” difference in the width compared to a 2 x 10 Super. What chassis are you using? What cab does it fit? The narrow panel Bassman....which is what that 5E6A through the 5F6A were, correct?....is closer to the width of the Super cabs.
    that Twin carried two rectifiers and had a wider chassis/cab. It was 2 1/4” inches wider than was the later hi-po 5F8/A Twin??.

    http://www.thevintagesound.com/ffg/contents.html
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2020
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  12. Haloskater24

    Haloskater24 Tele-Meister

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    I have a third party who will build the cab to fit the 5E6A chassis. Im just going to use a mojotone Low Power TT chassis as it is as close as i can get. Also wally, would getting the speaker Re-Magnetized affect the sound of the speaker? Im trying to keep it original as possible except for the cones of course.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2020
  13. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

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    If you're fairly handy you could order the parts from Weber and do it yourself. For whatever reason people think speaker reconing is highly complex, it's really not. Do it wrong and it won't work, so don't do it wrong.
    First one I did still works!
    Trust me it was way easier than rebuilding the transmission and J type overdrive unit in my old Volvo. That still works too.
     
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  14. Wally

    Wally Telefied Ad Free Member

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    iF one wants those P10PF’s to be reconed as P10Ps....or something close to that...then imho one would want to have them remagnetized. I; the sixth post of the thread at this link..https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=2146843&sid=fe6a642cc9c5520a5d959cf0487a75f1...you will find osme observations with some links to support the author’s statements.

    as for want8ng them to sound original, I am go8ng to think not. That is, I would not want the recone job to give me back speakers that were just like the ‘F’ yep of Jensen. I would want a P10P type of sound for guitar. And....who is there among us who was there to hear what an original Jensen Alnico sounded like when it was fresh....and still remember it??? Tonal memory is an elusive thing, ime. It demands development and experience....and well....a good memory....said an old man!
     
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  15. Haloskater24

    Haloskater24 Tele-Meister

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    Thank you wally it makes total sense now, Ill email Weber and see if they can recone it as a P10P. Ive done some research and theres one fella who had Weber recone it with their 10A150 cone,50 watt voice coil. Apparently he didn't like it because it broke up too soon which is exactly what i am looking for(Early break up).
     
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  16. Haloskater24

    Haloskater24 Tele-Meister

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    So im on the Weber website and im looking at the 10A125(Early breakup) which is rated at 30 watts, would two of these be too wimpy for a 30-40 watt amp? Im guessing yes. The 10A150 says its more in line of mid 60s fenders(later break up), don't know if this would effect the sound of the amp? Im Trying to be as accurate as i can to a mid to late 50s tweed sound.
     
  17. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

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    Rule of thumb is twice the wattage of the amp. I break that rule in big amps like my Twins simply because volume keeps me from cranking them very long. One of them has a 25 or 30 watt Greenback in it now, next to a Creamback.
    But it really depends on how you use the amp. At home you're probably fine with no little or no safety margin at all. But there's no way I can guarantee that! Also some pedals make square wave distortion and that'll eat speakers.
     
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  18. Haloskater24

    Haloskater24 Tele-Meister

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    Hm so i guess im better off with the 50 watt speakers then? Im honestly going for stuff like this with a strat . Id be mostly playing in clubs/bars,Church, home or at a friends house. Otis rush is really the reason why i wanted to even build a Bassman in the first place and since he used a bassman at least as early as 1957 i assumed it was this circuit(5E6A). I chose the 2X10 configuration because of the weight, i have 4 vintage Jensen atm but a 4x10 would just be too heavy and not that practical.
     
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  19. Haloskater24

    Haloskater24 Tele-Meister

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    Oh and as far as pedal i have some fuzzes and a light overdrive pedal but id mostly want to get some grit from the amp.
     
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  20. BobbyZ

    BobbyZ Doctor of Teleocity

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    Weber is really who you should ask about the wattage. They'll know what wattage voice coil they can use in it. If it's a 1.5" they for sure have 50 watt coils. That'd be over double.

    I'm not much of a pedals user so I don't know which ones do the square wave distortion.
    If you look at a perfect square like from a single generator on a scope it flips from positive to negitive at right angles. Instead of a smooth ripple sine wave. That slams the voice coil in and out harder.

    I'd love to find some people that want to play Otis Rush and things along those lines. Gets old playing songs I've never heard before, that I'd really rather not hear at all. Fast blues type stuff is what I play at home most of the time. With people about never.
     
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