Any advice on integrating a drum machine/groovebox into a standard guitar chain?

[Tom-Australia]

Hey all,

I've been taking a (fascinating) look into the world of synths, drum machines, groove boxes recently. I'm a massive noob when it comes to tech and currently play a very simple rig of guitar > flashback 2 > hall of fame 2 > ditto 2 > amp (pro jnr IV). I really enjoy making ambient loops etc but would love to add some programmed beats into the sound. I don't want to use a beat pedal - they don't sound very good to me.

Any advice on what's possible here and what might work? I'm worried the answer might actually be "can't be done pal".

Feel free to disregard price considerations for now.

Thanks in advance for any advice!!! As you can probably tell I'm a bit lost.

 

[naveed211]

Have it going to a separate amp if you’re serious about integrating it. You can probably find something like a keyboard amp pretty cheap that should do the trick.

 

[dswo]

I've been taking a (fascinating) look into the world of synths, drum machines, groove boxes recently.

I agree with the advice to send your drums/synths into a separate speaker. I'll add this: there is a wealth of very good drum machines, loopers, and synths for iPad, most of which sell for a fraction of their desktop counterparts (if those counterparts even exist). The Audiobus forum is a good source of information on this subject.

 

[Old Deaf Roadie]

They say you can't pick apples from an orange tree. My best advice is to get a mixer. Run both your drum trax & guitar chain into that, and patch it into a powered speaker or listen through headphones or get a 2nd amp for the rhythm box.

 

[mindlobster]

I’ve used a Boss RC3 looper for this - connect to a computer via usb and load it with backing tracks. Sometimes through the aux in on a combo, for a lo-fi trashy sound, or sometimes out to monitors for a cleaner sound. Works great!

 

[johnDH]

Ive got somdthing like that going, using a Digitech SDRUM.

Its a versatile drum generator that you can program from a guitar. It goes after the guitar, which passes through. The drum output goes from a 1/4" out, either to its own SS amp, or to a line-in on my mixer. From there it all goes via USB to my computer, and then during overdubs, it comes back out along with previous tracks, to the desktop monitor's, while another guitar track is added.

The SDRUM can also mix the guitar and drum signals, for when there's only one amp.

 

[W.L.Weller]

I use an Arturia Drumbrute into a Peavey KB-300. Enough "knock" to use alongside an actual trap kit.

Mixer & powered speaker or separate drum/synth amplification are the only options that will work outside the "88dB or below" bedroom context.

Guitar amps are great at amplifying guitars, quite less great at amplifying other stuff.

 

[arlum]

https://www.singularsound.com/?gcli...ZzGDW3Ee02dweDEaFGWnNQLQAJoaEQ4gaAk9gEALw_wcB

I use a pedal board with the Singular Sound Beat Buddy Drum Machine, Aeros Loop Studio and and Midi Maestro on a medium size pedaltrain pedal board lined up with my large stereo pedal board. It's perfect for this application because the Singular Sound equipment is all in stereo including the drum machine. The Loop Studio can be used in either a two track or six track recording form. The Beat buddy Drum Machine even connects via Midi to both the Aeros Loop Studio and my Eventide Delay pedal so they are all synced to whatever time I enter in the drum machine. I run the final output from my pedal board to the Loop Studio and then out to a left and right pair of Bruno Underground 30's. The stereo output from the Beat Buddy Drum machine goes to a separate pair of large stereo monitors because I don't like running drum beats through my guitar amplifiers.

 

[Jim622]

I have the Beat Buddy 2. At home I run it through my monitor speakers.


Arlum beat me by a minute. They are a great tool imo.

 

[Nogoodnamesleft]

I run drum machines/synths through guitar pedals even without the guitar haha. It depends on the sound you’re after I guess, but that stuff through guitar amps can sound glorious. Many famous artists do this.

For both into the same chain, a small mixer that has at least one ‘instrument’ input for guitar, at the front.

Edit: Just don’t crank the amp too much - a lot of fun stuff can be had in frequency ranges your amp’s speaker isn’t designed to handle. I’ve never blown anything (yet) but if you start pumping some 808 kicks and big bass sounds through there at high volumes damage can occur. But lower volumes have been just fine and have a unique tone, much like the fun we have with guitars and tone.

 

[Ben Harmless]

I’ve used a Boss RC3 looper for this

I do exactly this as well. With my band, I've been trying to get the others excited about using the RC3 inline to add sounds (especially drones) from my guitar amp. It hasn't really taken off.

I also have kind of a proto-solo project which is me with a baritone guitar making weird noises, and the RC3 is used for non-rhythmic stuff, but could easily be used for backing tracks. It has an instrument input and internally mixes it (it has a mix control) with tracks that you can easily upload via USB. You could easily run it straight into an amp and play any backing tracks you want. As long as the amp is relatively clean, then basic rhythm tracks should sound fine.

I run drum machines/synths through guitar pedals even without the guitar haha.

...And then there's this, which is a modern-classic. When COVID began, a musician friend who can't play much guitar anymore due to chronic pain started messing with EDM and I joined him a little. I picked up a Volca Beats, and I can't explain the pure joy of completely screwing with those sounds via guitar pedals and other junk. It is just so satisfying somehow. But yeah, not generally what people are looking for when they think guitar accompaniment - though I did provide several guitar parts for my friend's compositions.

 

[Tom-Australia]

Thanks everyone - these replies have given me a lot to look into! Really appreciate all your thoughts. Wasn't expecting so many replies so soon, really grateful for the insights.

 

[beninma]

I run my Boss RC-10r last in my chain on my pedal board for this.

I have a patch bay on my board that reconfigures the board for 1) everything into front of the amp 2) A front of the amp set + FX loop set depending on how you plug the board into the amp.

The RC-10r is the last thing in the part of the board that get switched into the loop.

If you're running everything straight into the amp you have to be careful with how much amp reverb or tremolo you use, although drum sounds are not really effected by most Tremolos because the drum doesn't have enough sustain to get modulated. I have a reverb pedal ahead of my RC-10r for that situation if I wanted the guitar to have a lot of reverb but not the drums. (The RC-10r can apply it's own reverb to the drums too.)

RC-10r lets you pick one of it's drum rhythms for simplicity or go crazy and make your own with a PC if you want too. It's got a second output if you want to configure the drums to a second amp, that works really well when I bother to set it up.

I have had a Beat Buddy before, they are great too. Singular sound is a company you should look into before deciding to support though. Questionable background that will bother some people.

 

[Nogoodnamesleft]

I do exactly this as well. With my band, I've been trying to get the others excited about using the RC3 inline to add sounds (especially drones) from my guitar amp. It hasn't really taken off.

I also have kind of a proto-solo project which is me with a baritone guitar making weird noises, and the RC3 is used for non-rhythmic stuff, but could easily be used for backing tracks. It has an instrument input and internally mixes it (it has a mix control) with tracks that you can easily upload via USB. You could easily run it straight into an amp and play any backing tracks you want. As long as the amp is relatively clean, then basic rhythm tracks should sound fine.



...And then there's this, which is a modern-classic. When COVID began, a musician friend who can't play much guitar anymore due to chronic pain started messing with EDM and I joined him a little. I picked up a Volca Beats, and I can't explain the pure joy of completely screwing with those sounds via guitar pedals and other junk. It is just so satisfying somehow. But yeah, not generally what people are looking for when they think guitar accompaniment - though I did provide several guitar parts for my friend's compositions.

I like that too. Thinking about the looper really as a phrase sampler and introducing other elements as part of the soundscape.

Also, using the looper in the traditional sense I suppose but with synths, drum machines, and acoustic drums. One thing I like doing is taking a single unit like the little teenage engineers PO-14 bass synth into a few pedals and into a looper just to see how much I cam build up with one tiny device. Like a challenge in minimalism. Right now it’s going into an MXR M-80 bass DI for the preamp/EQ/distortion duties, EHX Memory Toy, and an EHX 720 looper.

 

[Peegoo]

For drums and a bit more, check out the Trio pedal.

 

[SRHmusic]

If it hasn't been mentioned yet, if you want to use a single amplifier, use one with an effects loop and put the looper in the effects loop, not between the guitar and amp input. That way the drum etc. sounds go into the power amp section of the amplifier, and not into the (guitar oriented) preamp first. This also works really well, by the way, for recording a loop with one preamp setting (a clean or crunchy rhythm, say), and then playing another part with a different preamp setting (e.g. a lead guitar tone).

 

[Obsessed]

I’ve gone down a few different paths. The most complex is a drum machine into the Jamman Stereo looper. The early build-up loops of drums and bass go to a bass amp and then your guitar playing on top that goes into a guitar amp. Loads of fun and you adjust the amps for the mix. Once you get clever at looping, this is performance grade sound.
I now use a Trio+ looper that I enjoy much better alone or into the Jamman Stereo. The Trio+ is somewhat limited compared to a drum machine, but the ease of use and the fun factor is way better. As a non drummer, the Trio+ gives some excellent results compared to my old drum machine and it is already set up to your initial chord changes and timing. You can develop 5 parts of a song as you get better at it. P.S. stay away from the earlier version of the Trio.

 

[beninma]

If it hasn't been mentioned yet, if you want to use a single amplifier, use one with an effects loop and put the looper in the effects loop, not between the guitar and amp input. That way the drum etc. sounds go into the power amp section of the amplifier, and not into the (guitar oriented) preamp first. This also works really well, by the way, for recording a loop with one preamp setting (a clean or crunchy rhythm, say), and then playing another part with a different preamp setting (e.g. a lead guitar tone).

Yes, this is what I do on my Orange. It's absolutely the best way to get the best sound quality out of the loops and running the drums through the guitar amp. The preamp in the amp doesn't "color" the loops or drums this way.

But realistically if I'm using it for practice it doesn't really matter much versus running everything into the front end of my Princeton. I'm more likely to be using pedal dirt on the princeton anyway, and running the amp clean, so effectively the only issue is not dialing in massive amounts of spring reverb in the amp. Some of the pedals that have drums in them let you EQ the drum sounds to match your amp as well.

 

[Maguchi]

Hey all,

I've been taking a (fascinating) look into the world of synths, drum machines, groove boxes recently. I'm a massive noob when it comes to tech and currently play a very simple rig of guitar > flashback 2 > hall of fame 2 > ditto 2 > amp (pro jnr IV). I really enjoy making ambient loops etc but would love to add some programmed beats into the sound. I don't want to use a beat pedal - they don't sound very good to me.

Any advice on what's possible here and what might work? I'm worried the answer might actually be "can't be done pal".

Feel free to disregard price considerations for now.

Thanks in advance for any advice!!! As you can probably tell I'm a bit lost.

Have it going to a separate amp if you’re serious about integrating it. You can probably find something like a keyboard amp pretty cheap that should do the trick.

If it hasn't been mentioned yet, if you want to use a single amplifier, use one with an effects loop and put the looper in the effects loop, not between the guitar and amp input. That way the drum etc. sounds go into the power amp section of the amplifier, and not into the (guitar oriented) preamp first. This also works really well, by the way, for recording a loop with one preamp setting (a clean or crunchy rhythm, say), and then playing another part with a different preamp setting (e.g. a lead guitar tone).

Lots of good suggestions already. Just want to add my 2 cents. An Alesis SR-16 sits on top of an amp and is super easy to press a couple buttons and get great sounds. I was going to suggest an effects loop too, and if you have an amp with multiple inputs that works too. I use my Alesis SR-16 drum machine through a small Carvin QX5A mini P.A. with a 5" speaker.