Another Princeton Reverb vs Deluxe Reverb thread...

Discussion in 'Amp Central Station' started by Ash Telecaster, Jan 5, 2020.

  1. Ash Telecaster

    Ash Telecaster Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    ... But the first for me.

    I never took the Princeton seriously. No way a baby amp like that could really bring the goods. I have a DRRI and like It. It is a fine amp, reliable, sounds good, etc....

    Today I plugged into a Princeton Reverb with a 12" speaker.

    At first I just played clean with reverb, beautiful.

    Then I turned on the Trem, WOW, all of a sudden I was floating on a raft down the Tuscaloosa River. It just sounded spectacular.

    Then I dimed the volume, Wow, that thing rocked. It was fat and powerful and awesome.

    Now I get it.

    Unfortunately I wasn't able to play it side by side with my DRRI. At this point I think I prefer the Princeton. I may even buy it tomorrow. I have to plug into my DRRI and make sure I am not just taking it for granted. If I get the Princeton I will sell the DRRI.

    I couldn't try it with a drummer but to my great surprise it sounded loud enough. With the 12" speaker it had plenty of bottom end and there was no flubbyness at all.

    What an amp.
     
  2. schmee

    schmee Doctor of Teleocity Silver Supporter

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    I have had several of each. About 10 years ago I had 4 vintage DR's at the same time.
    Both are wonderful amps.
    I'll take the Princeton Rev for recording or very small gigs.
    But anything other than that and a PR can get pretty nasty, if you need clean also.
     
  3. Milspec

    Milspec Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    I use a Brownface Princeton (best trem effect) clone head into a 1x12 cab and it goes about everywhere. Really hard not to love that amp.
     
  4. dannyh

    dannyh Tele-Afflicted

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    The PR has bias vary trem, much deeper than the opti thing the DR uses, and it’s my favorite style trem.

    I agree with Schmee, for small gigs the PR is ideal. Get one on a gig outside or trying to keep up with a louder band and it just doesn’t keep up, IME. Even mic’d it just doesn’t do it for me like a Deluxe will. I actually prefer a 10 in a PR over a 12, but even the ones I’ve tried with 12’s were lacking when out of their preferred element. Just my opinion.

    That’s why you need both
     
  5. Ash Telecaster

    Ash Telecaster Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    I have to check myself and make sure it's not just gas!

    That amp just sounded so freakin' good.
     
  6. 39martind18

    39martind18 Tele-Afflicted

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    My experience with the PRRI is parallel with that of Dannyh. A number of my gigs are outside, and I play 90-95% clean, so the PRRI, while great sounding, just did not have the necessary clean volume. I even went to some lengths to achieve the cleans: Stokes and Fromel mods, changing the OT to a T020, and changing speakers, including a JBL D110F in 10 in, and in 12 inch speakers, a JBL E-120-8. Great sounding speaker, but even with the JBL's efficiency of 103 db, the PRRI just broke up too soon. My DR is a 71 that has a 2x10 baffle carrying 2 JBL D110Fs and has been converted to 6L6 power. The amp is clean for days, and has plenty of volume for all but about 10-15% of my gigs. I recently obtained a Super Champ XD, and outfitted it with a D110F and 6L6s. Its clean headroom, pushed with mini humbuckers, on channel 1, is loud and proud, and can handle most of the gigs the DR does, it's just not as full sounding.
     
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  7. Mark the Moose

    Mark the Moose Tele-Holic

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    On Friday I finished building a PR clone, but with a 12” speaker, big trannies and 6l6 tubes. It comes in at 35 watts. It’s an amazing amp, I love the tremolo. The DR is a fine amp as well, but I prefer the princeton.
     
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  8. MilwMark

    MilwMark Doctor of Teleocity Ad Free Member

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    Don’t get the allure.

    Not loud enough for any normal show.

    Ratty and farty when turned up anyway.

    Way too loud for home.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2020
  9. Buckaroo

    Buckaroo Tele-Meister

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    I agree. The 10" Princeton Reverb (BlackFace preference for me) has it's own, very cool, thing going on. And that is distinct and separate from the Deluxe Reverb. There is an area of overlap for sure, but for me that is not enough to depend on at a gig that has ANY possibility of volume escalation. The PR with a 12 is not my choice generally, but I do kind of dig that new brown one (Chris Stapleton model) and a Strymon Fint.

    The Deluxe Reverb Amp is very hard to beat IMO. And you can tweak the speaker in may ways. I like the Weber 12F125A speaker in a Deluxe Reverb.

    Buck
     
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  10. Vibrolux59

    Vibrolux59 Tele-Meister

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    My Princeton never had enough headroom for me to use it with a drummer. I run 5881's and a P12N just to get enough headroom from my DR.
     
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  11. Kontaktmoi

    Kontaktmoi Tele-Holic

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    Just make sure you take YOUR guitar (and pedals) to the shop for the final test. Your guitar/ setup will contribute greatly to the clean volume the Princeton Reverb can produce for you. Princeton '65 stays cleaner much longer. The PRRI '68 breaks up earlier.
     
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  12. Obelisk

    Obelisk Tele-Afflicted

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    I will stick with my Deluxe Reverb, but I do get the love for the Princeton Reverb. I just never bonded with them much though I do dig the 6G2 Princeton. I don't think a Princeton Reverb with a 12 would change my opinion much Been there and done that with more than a few Princeton amps over the years as the 12 inch speaker mod is pretty common. Mesa did base the Mark I on the hotrodded Princeton amps that Randall modded. Here is an example of an early one

    Boogie.jpg

    Congratulations though a 35 watt Princeton with 6L6 power tubes is probably closer to a Vibrolux Reverb than a stock Princeton Reverb. I would most likely like yours better because I prefer more headroom(this is one of my issues with a Princeton Reverb-it craps out too early). 6V6 tubes simply behave differently than a 6L6 power tube. Though they are related in the tube species, I have often found an a 6V6 behaves closer to an EL34 tube(meaning it has softer overdrive characteristics). The 6L6 is a more burly sounding tube than either a 6V6 or El34. I like them all, but each has different overdrive characteristics
     
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  13. Bluey

    Bluey Tele-Meister

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    Like Mark the Moose said. I wish I originally out laid a few extra bucks & had a custom built 6l6 12" with half power pentode/triode switch made.
    Prob. would have worked out cheaper in the long run.
     
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  14. Twang Deluxe

    Twang Deluxe Tele-Meister

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    I would get a Tone Master Deluxe Reverb
     
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  15. 1300 E Valencia

    1300 E Valencia Friend of Leo's

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    By golly, that very first increment on the Output Power adjuster on the back of the Tone Master goes from 22 watts to 12 watts, the exact power of a Princeton. Eerie similarity? Cosmic coincidence? I THINK NOT!
     
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  16. EsquireOK

    EsquireOK Friend of Leo's

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    For pure tone as the only consideration, I prefer a Princeton Reverb, stock. I have a real '68 that I inherited from my dad (still all stock except for a speaker re-cone job in the early '90s). But it has very limited use in a band with rock volume levels. Great for recording, low-volume bands, or anywhere that has good enough sound to run it mic'd.

    The DR doesn't sound much like a PR to me. It's got the feel of a "big boy" amp, while the PR is more like a "student" amp. The DR feels a lot louder and a lot cleaner to me.

    I haven't tried the new '68 PR that Fender has out now, but I'd like to. I have tried the '68 DR, and didn't like it much. It's supposed to have less headroom than the DRRI, but I found it to actually be a stiffer feeling amp than the DRRI (which I like a lot).
     
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  17. cmm71

    cmm71 Tele-Meister Silver Supporter

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    I have both, but the Princeton's currently on consignment at my local shop. For us "play at home" guys the Princeton has that Fender blackface sound at very reasonable levels. The Princeton shimmers with the volume on 4, and the wife can still hear her true crime TV show two rooms away. The Princeton delivers for those among us that really want that shimmering Fender tone in a small, domesticated space. The Deluxe Reverb also shimmers at home, but with much deeper lows. The DR just fills my practice room with a great big Fender blackface tone that I crave. It never gets beyond 2 on the volume, but it hits the spot. So the Princeton's up for sale.
     
  18. Hatfield92

    Hatfield92 Tele-Holic Silver Supporter

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    I’ve got a 79 DR that’s pretty much just gathering dust, and a custom built 6G2 clone. That’s my workhorse. I’m in a couple of groups that rehearse at gigging volume levels. The drummer in one is particularly heavy handed. I’m only playing rhythm guitar, but the 6G2 is plenty loud enough.

    It’s got a 12” Eminence Maverick that I have turned up halfway for these sessions. It’s just the right amount of volume.
     
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  19. muchxs

    muchxs Doctor of Teleocity

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    So close!

    Hassle with the PRRI is modifications that are simple and non- intrusive on a vintage PR are a (female canine) on the PRRI.

    My full package includes more current, less voltage on the power supply to make the tubes last. Makes the amp warmer and sweeter. It's good and it gets better.

    Couple preamp tweaks make it play clean wide open.

    No Stokes or Fromel mods. I did take a look inside a Kelly FACS a dozen years ago.

    No fair comparing a (more or less) stock PRRI to a modified Deluxe Reverb!

    Next modified Princeton Reverb I do (based on the last one and the one before that) is getting a TP25, a TO26 and real Tung-Sol 5881s. I consider max dissipation for real 5881s to be 25 watts. 6L6GBs are another choice at 19 watts, in other words bias 'em so they dissipate 13.5 watts at idle and they're right there. I'm leaving a little bit on the table compared to using 6L6GCs but I don't miss it.

    Your Deluxe Reverb is likely brighter with a sharper attack. I suppose you're making over 30 watts, I'm making a little less than 30 watts. It mostly comes down the difference between my cathodyne PI and your long tailed pair.

    Remember, mine stays clean most of the way up. I believe a volume knob should control volume not overdrive. What happens when I want more clean volume on a stock PR?

    No worries when it comes to overdrive. You might have a slight edge clean pardon the pun but my rig will call every cop in the county. Same amp, no pedals, no BS. Straight up and straight in.

    Don't do that. Your SCXD is living on borrowed time if you do. Its power supply wasn't designed for 6L6s.
     
  20. Ash Telecaster

    Ash Telecaster Friend of Leo's Silver Supporter

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    I thank everybody for your comments. I do not want to act on gas alone and any amp sounds loud in the absence of a live band.

    I am spending some time with my DRRI today to verify my perceptions and then another trip to the music store before I do anything rash.

    The collected wisdom of the TDPRI membership is unmeasurably valuable!
     
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