amps of the 1940s

[Wild Rice Chris]

Features date this Gibson EH-150 to 1941. Currently 100% original, which explains why it doesn't work.

This one is most likely a Premier (according to Andy Fuchs). Transformers are dated to 1948. The speaker and cab are new.

 

[barncat]

I always wondered what those early amps looked like. I just googled "Charlie Christian's gear" and it said that he used a Gibson EH-150. Only fifteen watts. Live music must have been a lot less loud back then. No wonder our parents were always telling us to "Turn it down"!

 

[BigDaddyLH]

You have to factor in watt inflation. 15 watts in 1940 is equivalent to 180 watts today. Charlie was playing the Super Twin Reverb of his day!

 

[FiddlinJim]

1947 Vega Commander for me

I got meeself a 1947 Vega Commander and restored it with much help from the guys and gals in the Shock Bros and Amp Central forumz. It's a single-ended 6L6 amp with a 6SL7GT and 6C5 as preamp tubes. It has an early permanent magnet Jensen speaker, the same 10" used in the Fender V-front Dual Professional/Super. It's not very loud, and doesn't break up easily. One weird part is that the volume pots are before the grid of the first preamp tube, so is sort of redundant with the guitar's volume control. Enough blabbin', here are the pictures (front and back with panels off):

 

[barncat]

BigDaddyLH- Could you explain what you mean by "watt inflation"? Why was 15 watts then equivalent to 180 watts now? I'm Ignorant when it comes to electronics.

 

[barncat]

By the way, How much are these things worth? Is there much of a demand for them today?

 

[BigDaddyLH]

BigDaddyLH- Could you explain what you mean by "watt inflation"? Why was 15 watts then equivalent to 180 watts now? I'm Ignorant when it comes to electronics.

I forgot to include these:

 

[barncat]

oops.

 

[chezdeluxe]

I forgot to include these:

BigDaddyLH You forgot to mention the conversion factor when watts went Metric in 2000..

 

[BigDaddyLH]

BigDaddyLH You forgot to mention the conversion factor when watts went Metric in 2000..

Good point. Before the metric system, you had all these separate measures: guitar watts and light bulb watts...

 

[Wild Rice Chris]

Here's my Gibson, finally up and running!

 

[TelecasterSam]

Those are interesting amps. I had a Gibson of that era, plus 2 Rickenbachers I got with lap steels. One of them was tan color and had 'RICK' across the front in tall letters, same height as the grill. Very cool amps. Shoulda kept them, but sold them at guitar shows.

 

[Riffraff12571]

Just picked up this '47 Masco MA25P on Monday. It is a 25w Dual 6L6 PA with turn table. They are very popular with harp players. It's going to be a really cool amp conversion.

 

[Warm Gums]

" I just googled "Charlie Christian's gear" and it said that he used a Gibson EH-150. Only fifteen watts. Live music must have been a lot less loud back then. No wonder our parents were always telling us to "Turn it down"!"

"Big Rooms" were some what smaller that the moderen arena, the primary Big Band setting were large hotel ballrooms and big city theaters..1000 to 1500 folks packed in. Usually pretty good acoustics and a hot band filled that up with NO sound reinforcement with the exception of a single mike for the leader to speak thru, and the singer to use.

Big/swing band guitar was mostly comping chords in the rhythm section, so there was no real need to have the guitar front and center, on the rare occasions where the guitar soloed every one pretty much stopped playing with the exception of the string bass and the drummer who dropped down to very low levels.Still before amps the guitarist could barely hear himself in a big band setting, so 15 watts was a huge improvement on that front.

You need to keep in mind that most of CCs recorded work was done in a small group; usually a sextet (big bands often had small groups that would play "real jazz" during a portion of the evening) 15 watts was just enough to let the guitar find its(slightly distorted) voice in that setting.

 

[20721]

This thread is killing me. I'd like "one of each".

 

[Wild Rice Chris]

I picked up a '49/'50 Alamo that didn't make it into this thread. I'll have to get a photo in here later.

 

[jmiles]

I have a Gibson BR-1. 2 6L6s. Nice amp. 1946 I think. I went to Chicago Music and asked for the schematic. They just laughed at me! I did buy a discontinued Condor for guitar for $127 though. Wish I had two of them now for my 12 string pedal steel!

 

[Tone Chase]

I have this all original 1946 Sound Craft, made in Toronto Canada. It took TLC and creativity to make her breathe again. It has a field coil speaker, and what appears to be original tubes.

 

[ndcaster]

I think these things sound fantastic but would love Quilter to create a perfect SS option.

 

[screamin eagle]

" I just googled "Charlie Christian's gear" and it said that he used a Gibson EH-150. Only fifteen watts. Live music must have been a lot less loud back then. No wonder our parents were always telling us to "Turn it down"!"

"Big Rooms" were some what smaller that the moderen arena, the primary Big Band setting were large hotel ballrooms and big city theaters..1000 to 1500 folks packed in. Usually pretty good acoustics and a hot band filled that up with NO sound reinforcement with the exception of a single mike for the leader to speak thru, and the singer to use.

Big/swing band guitar was mostly comping chords in the rhythm section, so there was no real need to have the guitar front and center, on the rare occasions where the guitar soloed every one pretty much stopped playing with the exception of the string bass and the drummer who dropped down to very low levels.Still before amps the guitarist could barely hear himself in a big band setting, so 15 watts was a huge improvement on that front.

You need to keep in mind that most of CCs recorded work was done in a small group; usually a sextet (big bands often had small groups that would play "real jazz" during a portion of the evening) 15 watts was just enough to let the guitar find its(slightly distorted) voice in that setting.

This is more on the money.

And BigdaddyLH was actually more on point then even he realizes. First off you have to remember that this was the first electric instrument on the bandstands for jazz. The electric guitar in the mid 30's wasn't competing with multiple electric instruments. I don't recall steel guitar in early jazz...which was essentially what these amps were made for.

Eddie Durham was experimenting with amplifying his guitar before the employment of guitar amps. He built a contraption that mounted in front of the guitar that was basically a phonograph cone that would focus his sound out into the room--like a phonograph. Everyone talks about guitar in these years was basically a rhythm instrument mirroring the drums, and that isn't untrue, however I suspect that these guys were eagerly anticipating the guitar amp; craving it almost. I say that because while CC laid the ground work for what would become the new voice of an instrument, he didn't just come up with it as soon as he could plug his guitar into an amp. Eddie Durham was developing a technique that really required amplification, Eddie Lang and Lonnie Johnson's style needed little adaptation to pair with amps. George Barnes's style was much more electric in technique than 30's jazz rhythm comping.

And one other note that hasn't been mentioned yet is that the circuits were really pretty simple. As in not a lot of components to choke down the signal. In other words, these were much louder than there watt designation suggests.

I've played an original, and a couple of clones, and actually am having a clone built for me as we speak--of an EH-185. I have two tweed based circuits that use octal preamp tubes and grid leak biased inputs. Not exactly like these earlier designs, but not entirely different either.

These amps sound wonderful if you're looking for a lively, dynamic, gritty tone that you can feel as much as you can hear. Extremely minimal filtering and basically no input voicing. On the EH-150/185 amp that has just a tone control, the control is really just a bass cut. At the 0 position it's full tone and as you roll the tone up it cuts bass without effecting the highs--like the highs are fixed in the circuit. Very different, and very cool.