Amp Tone. British / American. Low / High Power.

[arlum]

In my opinion power tubes recognized as the most commonly used for British and American Amplifier tone would be the EL34 and EL84 for British tone and the 6L6GC and 6V6 for American tone. I've always taken the tone of the higher powered tubes as the target difference between the two. The 6L6GC and EL34 have many commonalities with a few certain distinctions that separate them tonally. Primarily the definition a guitarist gets from the American tube vs. the crunchier breakup of the British tube.
Where I start to wonder is when the lower power tubes, 6V6 and EL84, come into play. They are both usually mentioned as the second tube to represent the difference between American and British amp tone. Neither one sounds like their big brother in the representation. Compared to the EL34 my ears have always heard the EL84 as being brighter with more note definition. Compared to the 6L6GC the 6V6 always sounds a little darker with more breakup or including a crunch the 6L6GC doesn't have. Does anyone else see what's wrong with this picture?. To my ears, if I had to pair them up, I'd say the definition shared by the 6L6GC and the EL84 with the EL84 having a little more top end makes them a closer pairing and the breakup of the EL34 and 6V6 with the 6V6 sounding a little darker with a bit less crunch makes them sound closer. If I wanted a lower power version of an amp with 6L6GCs I'd go for an amp using EL84s. If I wanted a lower powered version of an amp using EL34s I'd go for one using 6V6s.

These observations are based on what my ears hear. Brands, build methods, etc. play no role. What are your opinions? I strongly prefer a 6L6GC amp over an EL34 amp, (sorry Marshall). I absolutely prefer an EL84 over a 6V6 or, for that matter, any other power tube out there. I'm not trying to degrade 6V6s. I love them for certain uses and amp designs. They're just having to go up against my very favorite tube.

So ...... how could two tubes that have less in common than other tubes out there combine to become the representatives of both sides of what's probably the biggest rift in preferred guitar amp tonality?

There's nothing argumentative in this thread. Whether you prefer British or American tonality I respect your opinion. It's like I'm looking at two sets of fraternal twins and wondering if there was a switch at birth.

 

[63 vibroverb]

Interesting observations - I can understand why you feel the way you do about the similarities and differences between the tubes. Not saying I agree or disagree with you, but some of my thoughts:

As far as EL34's vs EL84's - most, if not all, amps I've heard with EL84's were either Vox AC30/AC15's or some kind of derivative of those circuits. Some important features of those amps are the lack of NFB and cathode bias, which add harmonics and open up more treble, edgier. Could this be the reason you associate EL84's with being brighter and more open? I haven't heard many EL34 amps without NFB or that are cathode biased. To my ears, EL34's do impart a narrow compressed mid tonality, but the amp circuit plays a big part in the sound. For example, a JCM800 sounds dry, brittle, stiff, and aggressive while an Orange OR50 is spongy, dark, forgiving, and real thick. Both EL34 amps. What I hear in both EL34's and EL84's is that they are both "narrow" and compressed. Throw in the KT66 (which was created to be substituted for the American 6L6GC) and you have a very different palette. Same with the American 6CA7 in "competition" with the EL34.

For 6L6GC's vs 6V6's - I find the tonality of the 6V6 to have a lot in common with the 5881 (6L6GC's predecessor). The 6L6GC's came along to handle more plate voltages and bring slightly more power than the 5881. It also resulted in more bass/highs and scooped mids compared to the 5881 and 6V6. It's possible that you'd often hear the smaller 6V6 Fender amps like Princetons and Deluxes being turned up more frequently than the bigger 6L6 Vibroluxes and Twins. More tube saturation and fat. So you then associate 6V6's with being fatter sounding than 6L6's. To me, an AB763 Princeton sounds a lot like an AB763 Twin despite their different tubes. There is still an openness and high end clarity to the 6V6 that is different from the EL34, IMO. I think 6L6's and 6V6's both sound more similar than different. I'd be curious to compare 2 amps with the same circuit and speakers, but 1 amp has a pair of 6L6's while the other has a quad of 6V6's.

So anyway, I do believe each power tube type has a different character. But the amp circuit and speakers play a big part as well in the overall recipe. At the end of the day, tone is subjective and it's your ears and tastes that matter the most.